Why 45/70 ?????

For some folks nostalgia is a big part of the hunting experience. Consider the resurgence in the interest of the Sharps rifles. The originals were expensive, and the newly manufactured rifles are equally so. The choice of the more common 1895 Marlin is the cheapest way to get into big bore shooting. The .45/70 isn't a bad choice when the range is not in excess of 150 yards, and most black bears are killed within half of that range. The power can approach that of a .458, which depending on your point of view can either be a big deal or it can be ho-hum. Some folks have been known to opine that any straight wall cartridge shorter than 3" is a pistol cartridge.
 
Hi there. I don't think you would be slamming the ballistics of the 45/70 if you bought one and ran some good custom loads through it. Don't be turned off by the weak ballistic numbers that factory ammunition publishes in their books. Like many good calibres, the 45/70 doesn't even start to come alive until you load for it. Maybe it won't give the kind of range you are looking for, but 200 yard shots are not entirely unreasonable.

Best regards.
 
MTM said:
While I've had a few over the years I've never actualy hunted with one. I currently have a very accurate Guide Gun, doing an inch with it's 405 gr. load at 1800 fps.It won't be a first choice for anything but will be very cool for retreiving meat or carrying when I know I'm going to be in some thick stuff. Also kills stumps dead.
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Before I sold my GG I chronied my 405 Rem Bullets just over 1800fps. I put 2 into an elk at about 50-60 yards and if it wasn't for a 338X bullet then I am not sure if I would have found that elk. The bullets had dismal penetration and fragmented to the point of not finding any mass. They just came apart. Rib and shoulder shot. One broken rib and lots of bloodshot. In my experience these bullets are good fun for paper and beavers. My buddy uses 300gr Nosler Partitions and shoots through everything with his GG. Doesn't sound as cool but works better. On another note I'd rather shoot my Rigby than a hot loaded 45/70. Much easier to control and only one less round in the gun and I work the bolt as fast or faster than 'I' could work a lever. I had too much not to like about the 45/70 and the GG so I sold it. Now its punishing a new owner.
 
I watched Randy the caretaker out at Genessee hit the gong (18"? 20"? I forget) several times in a row with his rolling block 45-70 and peep sites at 700 metres. Maybe not minute of deer or bear for the range, but no doubt for say 200m. Pertinent to this discussion, well, somewhat - falls into the category of 'know your gun and load'.

Lotsa dead buffalo not here to attest to its stopping power :D
 
toebako said:
Before I sold my GG I chronied my 405 Rem Bullets just over 1800fps. I put 2 into an elk at about 50-60 yards and if it wasn't for a 338X bullet then I am not sure if I would have found that elk. The bullets had dismal penetration and fragmented to the point of not finding any mass. They just came apart. Rib and shoulder shot. One broken rib and lots of bloodshot. In my experience these bullets are good fun for paper and beavers. My buddy uses 300gr Nosler Partitions and shoots through everything with his GG. Doesn't sound as cool but works better. On another note I'd rather shoot my Rigby than a hot loaded 45/70. Much easier to control and only one less round in the gun and I work the bolt as fast or faster than 'I' could work a lever. I had too much not to like about the 45/70 and the GG so I sold it. Now its punishing a new owner.
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So why not shoot TSX's or hard cast lead or trophy bonded bear claws or partitions, or... ?

The gun/caliber isn't to blame for poor performance from a cheap bullet.
 
Lots of interesting and thought provoking responses here.
The appeal of the lever action is hard to overstate.

What surprises me is how many of us hunt at very short range. Inside 150 yards the cartridge is plenty of gun...no doubt there.

Contrary to what has been suggested I have quite a bit of experience with the 45/70. I played with the 45/70 extensively back in the 80's (killed some game and rang lots of gongs) and still own an 1895. I regularly shoot with one of the better black powder guys in the country so I am also keenly aware of its long range accuracy potential. Long range black powder shooting may be the most frustrating sport on the planet.

Translating that range into field use is quite another matter.....At the very least you need a laser rangefinder, a slope indicator, and you better have a well dialed adjustment table. I have a 350 yard target that sees lots of testing....Hitting that target with a 45/70 is not as simple as you would think.
Lots of Quigley wanna bees try and fail....Not a simple challenge when you can't "walk" you bullets on to the target.
My 405gr FP (2050fps) load drops just short of 5 feet at that range....Miss the range by 20 yards this far out and you will be off by a foot!

As much as I like the 45/70 I haven't taken one hunting for many years.
No disrespect intended to those that do.
 
My son and I just came back from our unsuccessful grizzly hunt my Marlin 1895GS 45-70 loaded with 525gr Beartooth WLNGC's when he wasn't carrying a 300RUM went everywhere with my son.

On the trip I stopped in @ Omineca Sports and bought a box of the new Hornady FTX 325gr .458" bullets to give a try in my T/C Contender carbine chambered in 45-70 I plan to hunt with only my T/C Contender carbine's this fall.

There is as much of a reason to use a 45-70 as a 300 Win Mag or a 270 Win all have their place.
 
X-fan said:
I understand the stopping capabilities of the 45/70, but why on earth would anybody choose to hunt with one?

I don't really understand all the 45/70 recommendations in a recent black bear thread???
Is there allure in the dismal range characteristics of the 45/70??
Do we choose it to protect ourselves from the black bear?

If I want a challenge I hunt with a recurve or compound bow and maybe (someday) a black powder rifle.
If I'm serious and want to get the job done I bring a rifle chambered in a cartridge with some performance.

If I want history I bring a 7X57, 30-06, 375 H&H, or 416 Rigby.....All of which are much more logical general purpose rifles.

Just my opinion and all in fun of course.:D

What interests me is why do you choose to hunt with the 45/70 and why do you recommend it??
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Another uniformed shooter about the awesome power and reach of the 45-70 Google Sandy Hook tests about the 45-70.
They were shooting further 150 years ago with the 45-70 than you ever will now with modern stuff.
 
Why 45-70?? It just cool!!

I have the 7x57, 30-06 & the .375H&H plus a host of others but also shoot 2 45-70 rifles. One is a Marlin 1895 rifle (hunting & lever action CASS side matches) & an 1885 Win Repro from Uberti - That one has a Pedersoli tang sight & w/ 525 cast bullets rings the big gong at 1000 yards

Like I said - cool!
 
I used a 45/70 back when they weren't everyman's rifle. I bought my first H&R in 1971 and My Marlin 1895 in 1974. By the way, that Marlin was one of the most accurate hunting rifles I ever owned and I've owned a few. I won turkeys with that rifle shooting against 22/250 varmint rifles. I loaded the Elmer Keith load of 53 of 3031 and a 400 grain bullet.
Now that everybody has one, I don't use the cartridge as much since it goes against my contrary nature but I still have a couple of them.
 
toebako said:
Before I sold my GG I chronied my 405 Rem Bullets just over 1800fps. I put 2 into an elk at about 50-60 yards and if it wasn't for a 338X bullet then I am not sure if I would have found that elk. The bullets had dismal penetration and fragmented to the point of not finding any mass. They just came apart. Rib and shoulder shot. One broken rib and lots of bloodshot. In my experience these bullets are good fun for paper and beavers. My buddy uses 300gr Nosler Partitions and shoots through everything with his GG. Doesn't sound as cool but works better. On another note I'd rather shoot my Rigby than a hot loaded 45/70. Much easier to control and only one less round in the gun and I work the bolt as fast or faster than 'I' could work a lever. I had too much not to like about the 45/70 and the GG so I sold it. Now its punishing a new owner.
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So I hope you learned not use cheap bullets and wound game. Remington 405's cannot be pushed that fast and be expected to hold together. You should have done some bullet reserch prior to your hunt and used a proper bullet. There are plenty of .458 bullets that would have passed thu the Elk on any angle. I do agree with the 300gr Nosler Partition being a great .458 bullet, one of the best, too bad Nosler dropped it.

Better luck next time.

Cheers

Seabass
 
There still are .458 partitions out there, but I don't see the need to buy them at 4-5 bucks a bullet when the TSX is a buck a bullet.
 
I'm confused which bullet for a 45-70 are you refering too that costs 4 - 5 bucks each?

I shoot cast, hard cast gas checked, Swift A-Frames, Hornady's, and now Hornady FTX's the most expensive are the A-Frames @ about $1.25 each.
 
I love my Guide gun in 45-70.
It's a peach to shoot.
Even at 35 grains of RL7 and a 480 grain bullet, it's quite a manageable round.

I shoot it because the fudds over at the range actually come over to take a look unlike the other "evil" junk that I have.
 
ben hunchak said:
Don't feed the troll!!(3 pages of responses) Come on guys!!
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Are you kidding! I'm loving the responses...if we didn't have stupid questions where would all the smart answers come from?

I've just made a deal on a 45/70 :dancingbanana:and I'm really looking forward to experimenting with loads for it.
 
Camp Cook said:
I'm confused which bullet for a 45-70 are you refering too that costs 4 - 5 bucks each?

I shoot cast, hard cast gas checked, Swift A-Frames, Hornady's, and now Hornady FTX's the most expensive are the A-Frames @ about $1.25 each.
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Last time I saw .458 Nosler Partitions they were $75 USD per 25. Midway has them listed for 104 USD per 25.
 
X-fan said:
I understand the stopping capabilities of the 45/70, but why on earth would anybody choose to hunt with one?

I don't really understand all the 45/70 recommendations in a recent black bear thread???
Is there allure in the dismal range characteristics of the 45/70??
Do we choose it to protect ourselves from the black bear?

If I want a challenge I hunt with a recurve or compound bow and maybe (someday) a black powder rifle.
If I'm serious and want to get the job done I bring a rifle chambered in a cartridge with some performance.

If I want history I bring a 7X57, 30-06, 375 H&H, or 416 Rigby.....All of which are much more logical general purpose rifles.

Just my opinion and all in fun of course.:D

What interests me is why do you choose to hunt with the 45/70 and why do you recommend it??
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: Well now... where shall I begin. Perhaps I should suggest that you check my website as I'll be writing about my experience with the fabulous 45-70 over the next few weeks. The header has a pic of my Ruger No.1 Improved (long-throated) that equals a 458WM. Then there's my classic 1895 Marlin. I won't tell you my loads but if you want you can get my reloading manual, and the website tells you how. There will soon be a pic there of a good bear taken with an NEF Handi-Rifle in 45-70 with one of Ben Hunchack's excellent hardcasts with GC... a 465-grain moving out at 1900 fps! That'll get 'er done! On anything that moves! The ol' 45-70 is my favorite all-time cartridge, and I've had a bunch of 'em (rifles and cartridges that is) over the past 1/2 century plus.

A 45-70 good for 200 yards, you say? Na... make that 350 yds on big game and you'll be close enough! All I got to say for now...

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
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