Why 6.5 Creedmore?

[todbartell]

It has exactly the same bullet performance, bullet weight, selection, style, velocity, same magazine size, bolt face, etc. EVERYTHING. How is one "better" than the other?

Seat a 147gr Hornady ELD to 2.8" in a 260 Rem. Any slight advantage in case capacity the 260 had, is gone (54grs H2O case, after bullet seated, 45.2grs usable capacity). Most 260's were 1:9 twist and the bullet would hit the paper sideways. Look for factory 260 Remington rifles, good luck. Look for 260 Rem factory ammo, good luck. Look for brass empties, good luck

I can count 11 different factory 260 Rem loads available in Canada
- Barnes 120gr TTSX VorTx
- Barnes 140gr Precision Match
- Hornady 129gr SST Superformance
- Hornady 130gr ELD Match
- Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip
- Nosler Trophy Grade 125gr Partition
- Nosler Trophy Grade 130gr Accubond
- Remington 140gr Core Lokt
- Federal Fusion 120gr
- Federal Gold Medal 142gr Sierra MK

6.5 Creedmoor, 40 different loads from Barnes, Browning, Federal. Hornady, HSM, Nosler, Remington, Sig Sauer & Winchester

Anything the 260, 6.5x47, 6.5x55 does, the Creed does as well, and you can benefit from the large selection of firearms and ammo.

 

[todbartell]

IMO, 6.5 Creedmore is "better" than the 308 just like the 6.8SPC is "better" than 5.56. Sounds great on paper but unless the military ends up adopting it, it's just another "caliber-de-jour" that'll end up fading into obscurity.

 

[Tokay444]

The creedmoor performs better at 2.8" COAL, as it is designed to, in AR10-pattern 2.8" magazine-fed guns.

The 260 gives up comparatively more case capacity when high BC bullets are seated at this COAL, enough that the creedmoor has a higher case capacity.

At lengths over SAAMI, the 260 is better.

At lengths over SAMMI spec, the Quraetmeaur still fits in a short action.

 

[iain.quayle]

I believe it's recent attention has a lot to do with it's unofficial adoption by PRS guys.

IMO, 6.5 Creedmore is "better" than the 308 just like the 6.8SPC is "better" than 5.56. Sounds great on paper but unless the military ends up adopting it, it's just another "caliber-de-jour" that'll end up fading into obscurity.

USSOCOM just adopted the 6.5 cm for their precision rifles... came down to 260 Remington vs Creedmoor

"As both cartridges were similarly accurate and reliable, the determining factor for selection of 6.5 CM would end up being trade space. The prevailing attitude is that there was more room with the 6.5 CM to further develop projectiles and loads."

 

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

Seat a 147gr Hornady ELD to 2.8" in a 260 Rem. Any slight advantage in case capacity the 260 had, is gone (54grs H2O case, after bullet seated, 45.2grs usable capacity). Most 260's were 1:9 twist and the bullet would hit the paper sideways. Look for factory 260 Remington rifles, good luck. Look for 260 Rem factory ammo, good luck. Look for brass empties, good luck

I can count 11 different factory 260 Rem loads available in Canada
- Barnes 120gr TTSX VorTx
- Barnes 140gr Precision Match
- Hornady 129gr SST Superformance
- Hornady 130gr ELD Match
- Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip
- Nosler Trophy Grade 125gr Partition
- Nosler Trophy Grade 130gr Accubond
- Remington 140gr Core Lokt
- Federal Fusion 120gr
- Federal Gold Medal 142gr Sierra MK

6.5 Creedmoor, 40 different loads from Barnes, Browning, Federal. Hornady, HSM, Nosler, Remington, Sig Sauer & Winchester

Anything the 260, 6.5x47, 6.5x55 does, the Creed does as well, and you can benefit from the large selection of firearms and ammo.

You and your logical arguments....

 

[9.3 Hunter]

It is a CREEDMOOR - like the famous range.

I have several 260Rems with the Ackley mod. These are throated to take 140 gr bullets set well out, so as to not take up powder capacity.

The results is a short case with similar capacity as the 6.5x55, but the loaded round is too long for short action magazines

The result is higher performance than the Creedmoor, which gives up case capacity, so it can be used in short actions.

The 260Rem could have been made by a gun maker with a deeper throat and would easily match Creed performance, with a bit more velocity.

That said, the Creed works well.

Say what you will but My 260 Rem loads faster fps loads in 129gr and even 142gr easy, and than for 6.5 Creedmore..... and in a 20" carbine barrel. I have a lightweight very accurate .25 moa in all my loads in a Rem 7 and its 5.5lbs with the scope. I tried out a nice xbolt in Creedmore and it shot well but was a longer barrel 26", heavier gun and ended up just as not as good as my 260. The xbolt is great, the round, not impressive to me. I sold the Creedmore, just saying......

 

[todbartell]

Say what you will but My 260 Rem loads faster fps loads in 129gr and even 142gr easy,

load a Creedmoor to the same pressures and you'll get the same velocity as the 260. I'm glad you enjoy your 260, it's a great cartridge, but it's not magic. Neither is the Creed. They get the bullets going the same speed

 

[saskbooknut]

Can't be true. Case capacity counts.

 

[nowarningshot]

300 Winchester Magnum.

Knock down power.

Exactly .....paper dies with a hole punch. 300 wm leaves animals knocked over with red mist in the scope.

 

[gorby]

I fully understand it in a heavy barrel long range gun. I do not understand all the guys buying it in light barrel hunting rifles.

My first big game hunting rifle is a 6.5 CM. My reasoning behind it was:

1) A short action which if you are gram counting backpacking weeny who cuts the handle down on your toothbrush is a significant 1/4 pound savings in many models.

2) Low recoil for a new shooter in a very capable caliber for deer and eventualy sheep.

3) Readily available components for reloading and tons of rifle models to choose from.

There are other calibers I was considering like 7mm-08, but the CM was in stock.

 

[todbartell]

Can't be true. Case capacity counts.

Cartridge          : .260 Rem
Bullet             : .264, 143, Hornady ELD-X 2635
Useable Case Capaci: 46.001 grain H2O = 2.987 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

14 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                       100.7     45.9     2.97    2801   100.0    60000   11591   1.115  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        101.7     44.3     2.87    2728    96.3    60000   11306   1.116  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL17                        90.6     40.3     2.61    2721   100.0    60000   10211   1.130  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       103.0     44.2     2.86    2719    97.6    59553   11302   1.131  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          103.0     46.4     3.01    2716    93.9    59191   11639   1.155  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     103.0     47.6     3.08    2702    98.1    59389   10883   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL16                        96.6     39.9     2.58    2688   100.0    60000   10070   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL19                        99.8     42.3     2.74    2680    97.6    60000   10750   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      95.1     41.7     2.70    2679    99.4    60000   10495   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        89.8     40.3     2.61    2670    98.9    60000   10473   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      89.8     40.3     2.61    2670    98.9    60000   10473   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL23                       103.0     42.7     2.77    2657   100.0    55484   10231   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831sc                    101.2     43.4     2.81    2652    95.4    60000   10520   1.134  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            99.1     40.2     2.61    2643   100.0    60000    9845   1.158  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                     85.5     38.6     2.50    2638   100.0    60000    9559   1.155  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      80.6     38.1     2.47    2638   100.0    60000    9514   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            85.2     36.1     2.34    2631   100.0    60000    9554   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 97.1     39.8     2.58    2630   100.0    60000    9250   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                        86.1     36.5     2.37    2625   100.0    60000    9550   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       97.1     40.3     2.61    2619    98.4    60000    9917   1.152  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : 6.5 Creedmoor
Bullet             : .264, 143, Hornady ELD-X 2635
Useable Case Capaci: 44.637 grain H2O = 2.898 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

13 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                       101.7     45.0     2.91    2786   100.0    60000   11405   1.114  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        102.6     43.4     2.81    2709    96.0    60000   11070   1.117  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL17                        91.5     39.5     2.56    2706   100.0    60000   10041   1.130  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       103.0     42.8     2.78    2677    97.1    57937   10993   1.143  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL16                        97.5     39.1     2.53    2673   100.0    60000    9903   1.143  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          103.0     45.1     2.92    2672    93.1    57515   11284   1.168  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL19                       100.7     41.4     2.69    2663    97.4    60000   10540   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      96.0     40.8     2.64    2663    99.3    60000   10305   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     103.0     46.2     2.99    2657    97.5    57704   10593   1.160  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      90.6     39.4     2.55    2653    98.7    60000   10274   1.147  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        90.6     39.4     2.55    2653    98.7    60000   10274   1.147  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831sc                    102.0     42.4     2.75    2633    95.1    60000   10297   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           100.0     39.4     2.55    2627    99.9    60000    9674   1.158  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                     86.2     37.8     2.45    2623   100.0    60000    9393   1.155  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      81.3     37.3     2.42    2622   100.0    60000    9348   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL23                       103.0     41.5     2.69    2619   100.0    53940   10017   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 98.0     39.0     2.53    2615   100.0    60000    9090   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            85.9     35.3     2.29    2614   100.0    60000    9386   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                        86.8     35.7     2.31    2608   100.0    60000    9381   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       81.8     36.7     2.38    2601   100.0    60000    9144   1.168  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       97.9     39.4     2.55    2601    98.2    60000    9718   1.153  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Buckmastr]

It's a sales gimmick that's working.
There is nothing special to see here.

 

[todbartell]

avg of top six powders for each cartridge

260 : 44.8grs powder for 2731 fps

6.5CM : 42.5grs powder for 2704 fps

100y zero distances

1000y drop : 260 Rem 30moa/8.9mil, 6.5CM 30.7moa/9.1mil

 

[nowarningshot]

Cartridge          : .260 Rem
Bullet             : .264, 143, Hornady ELD-X 2635
Useable Case Capaci: 46.001 grain H2O = 2.987 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

14 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                       100.7     45.9     2.97    2801   100.0    60000   11591   1.115  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        101.7     44.3     2.87    2728    96.3    60000   11306   1.116  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL17                        90.6     40.3     2.61    2721   100.0    60000   10211   1.130  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       103.0     44.2     2.86    2719    97.6    59553   11302   1.131  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          103.0     46.4     3.01    2716    93.9    59191   11639   1.155  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     103.0     47.6     3.08    2702    98.1    59389   10883   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL16                        96.6     39.9     2.58    2688   100.0    60000   10070   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL19                        99.8     42.3     2.74    2680    97.6    60000   10750   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      95.1     41.7     2.70    2679    99.4    60000   10495   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        89.8     40.3     2.61    2670    98.9    60000   10473   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      89.8     40.3     2.61    2670    98.9    60000   10473   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL23                       103.0     42.7     2.77    2657   100.0    55484   10231   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831sc                    101.2     43.4     2.81    2652    95.4    60000   10520   1.134  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            99.1     40.2     2.61    2643   100.0    60000    9845   1.158  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                     85.5     38.6     2.50    2638   100.0    60000    9559   1.155  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      80.6     38.1     2.47    2638   100.0    60000    9514   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            85.2     36.1     2.34    2631   100.0    60000    9554   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 97.1     39.8     2.58    2630   100.0    60000    9250   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                        86.1     36.5     2.37    2625   100.0    60000    9550   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       97.1     40.3     2.61    2619    98.4    60000    9917   1.152  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : 6.5 Creedmoor
Bullet             : .264, 143, Hornady ELD-X 2635
Useable Case Capaci: 44.637 grain H2O = 2.898 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

13 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                       101.7     45.0     2.91    2786   100.0    60000   11405   1.114  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        102.6     43.4     2.81    2709    96.0    60000   11070   1.117  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL17                        91.5     39.5     2.56    2706   100.0    60000   10041   1.130  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       103.0     42.8     2.78    2677    97.1    57937   10993   1.143  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL16                        97.5     39.1     2.53    2673   100.0    60000    9903   1.143  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          103.0     45.1     2.92    2672    93.1    57515   11284   1.168  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL19                       100.7     41.4     2.69    2663    97.4    60000   10540   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      96.0     40.8     2.64    2663    99.3    60000   10305   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     103.0     46.2     2.99    2657    97.5    57704   10593   1.160  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      90.6     39.4     2.55    2653    98.7    60000   10274   1.147  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        90.6     39.4     2.55    2653    98.7    60000   10274   1.147  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831sc                    102.0     42.4     2.75    2633    95.1    60000   10297   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           100.0     39.4     2.55    2627    99.9    60000    9674   1.158  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                     86.2     37.8     2.45    2623   100.0    60000    9393   1.155  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      81.3     37.3     2.42    2622   100.0    60000    9348   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL23                       103.0     41.5     2.69    2619   100.0    53940   10017   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 98.0     39.0     2.53    2615   100.0    60000    9090   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            85.9     35.3     2.29    2614   100.0    60000    9386   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                        86.8     35.7     2.31    2608   100.0    60000    9381   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       81.8     36.7     2.38    2601   100.0    60000    9144   1.168  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       97.9     39.4     2.55    2601    98.2    60000    9718   1.153  ! Near Maximum !

So a couple hundred behind 260. Thanks for the chart. Not enough to switch, or choose one way or the other if buying new. Reload pretty much everything, so ammo availability is a non issue.

Unless you were choosing for barrel wear in your 14lb bench rest rifle, i dont see a benefit. If one is sheep or goat hunting you are often in bear country. Carry a 264, 7mag, or 300. Personally I have never felt recoil shooting at game.

 

[Gatehouse]

When someone describes the 6.5 CM as "marketing and hype" I instantly know they don't have much knowledge.

This needs repeating

 

[todbartell]

So a couple hundred behind 260. Thanks for the chart. Not enough to switch, or choose one way or the other if buying new. Reload pretty much everything, so ammo availability is a non issue.

Unless you were choosing for barrel wear in your 14lb bench rest rifle, i dont see a benefit. If one is sheep or goat hunting you are often in bear country. Carry a 264, 7mag, or 300. Personally I have never felt recoil shooting at game.

couple hundred fps? Look again. And in a bear defense situation a 260 is same as a 7mm mag. Only on CGN does bear defense come into play

 

[Buckmastr]

Did the creedmoor fan boys actually grab it and kill any large game this year?

 

[Lead hammer]

Honestly this is more of a 6.5 Creed defense thread. Not a fanboy one. A fanboy never started it saying it was so great. Shoot your canon, shoot something smaller. Who cares.

 

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

Considering that the Scandinavians hunt moose with the Swede and that the 6.5 Creed offers near identical performance to it there is no reason the Creed cannot be a perfectly viable hunting cartridge.

If you think you need a magnum for hunting any prey animal in Canada you probably need to practice more (LR hunting is a different game obviously).

 

[saskbooknut]

6.5 CM is an adequate big game cartridge, nothing more. 6.5x55 did the same a century before.
There is very little new under the sun in ballistics, except advertising copy to sell new firearms.
Just one old guy's opinion.