Why all the love for the M98 action?
- Thread starter Eaglelord17
- Start date
controlled round feed is why i like this design. i myself do not own a mauser, however i own many wichesters, and a ruger that all utilize this concept...
as mausermike said i don't think i'll need to reload while upside down, while a lion is charging. nor will i be hanging by my ankle from a tree. that being said, i'm its comforting to know that if i were to do either.... my rifle would cycle without flaw.
as mausermike said i don't think i'll need to reload while upside down, while a lion is charging. nor will i be hanging by my ankle from a tree. that being said, i'm its comforting to know that if i were to do either.... my rifle would cycle without flaw.
Unlike many of you lucky folks, I have only four Mausers.
1. A 1897 Ludwig Loewe Boer War bringback.
2. A 1898 m/96 Carl Gustaf.
3. A 1912-dated Model B, and
4. A 1937-built ES350B.
All four have ALWAYS gone bang when that trigger was squozed.
Can't grumble about that.
tac
1. A 1897 Ludwig Loewe Boer War bringback.
2. A 1898 m/96 Carl Gustaf.
3. A 1912-dated Model B, and
4. A 1937-built ES350B.
All four have ALWAYS gone bang when that trigger was squozed.
Can't grumble about that.
tac
In my biased opinion, the Mauser 98 is the best bolt action ever. Full Stop. Complex and expensive to manufacture, it's very simple in design. Any major component that is likely to fail can be changed within minutes if you have the parts on hand. Just try changing a Lee Enfield firing pin.
It can be very smooth to operate, but I've found that this requires some polishing of the raceways to get the best out of it. I've never had a problem with bolt wobble. This is just a tolerance that helps keep things working in the field. Besides, there's no wobble when the bolt is closed. If you're having problems with ejection, then something is amiss. Most of the Mausers I've owned will fling the empties across the room if I snap the bolt back.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Springfield was ever purchased by any other country but the U.S. The Lee-Enfield was only used by commonwealth countries and British colonies of the time. The Mauser was adopted by dozens of countries worldwide, and especially popular in South America.
I'm quite happy that Mausers were made in the tens of millions. It means a good supply of affordable actions to make custom hunting rifles out of!
It can be very smooth to operate, but I've found that this requires some polishing of the raceways to get the best out of it. I've never had a problem with bolt wobble. This is just a tolerance that helps keep things working in the field. Besides, there's no wobble when the bolt is closed. If you're having problems with ejection, then something is amiss. Most of the Mausers I've owned will fling the empties across the room if I snap the bolt back.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Springfield was ever purchased by any other country but the U.S. The Lee-Enfield was only used by commonwealth countries and British colonies of the time. The Mauser was adopted by dozens of countries worldwide, and especially popular in South America.
I'm quite happy that Mausers were made in the tens of millions. It means a good supply of affordable actions to make custom hunting rifles out of!
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Heck I only have two Tac,
-FN K-98 action in 458x2inch
-ES350B small bore Mauser circa 1936
I can never decide on my third choice! lol (Norweigan Post WWII in 30-06 or a Pre-War 7x57?)
Best discourse on bolt actions (including the Mauser) can be found in the book by Frank DeHaas. He discusses the pros and cons of them all, their strong points and weaknesses.
He makes a point that Mausers were surface hardened where necessary and left soft in other areas. This is good to remember when customizing a military action and why he recommended using a commercial action instead. Most of the work on them has already been done.
He makes a point that Mausers were surface hardened where necessary and left soft in other areas. This is good to remember when customizing a military action and why he recommended using a commercial action instead. Most of the work on them has already been done.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I like the Mauser myself. The thing that strikes me as silly though, are the "re-enactors" (American mainly). They love the Axis weapons (nothing wrong with that). To read between the lines, they seem to decry anything British from the period (Commonwealth included by default), just out of spite. This is a relatively recent phenomenon, from what I gather.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
BeaverMeat
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nanaimo, B.C.
Reminiscent of the "my Mauser bolt wobbles" thread
What's the issue with a "protruding magazine"?? This isn't a beauty contest.
"Ungainly P14/M17"? I don't know what to say to that! The only rifle that has better natural point in my experience is the SMLE or the 1910 Ross sporters. The P14/M17 stock is a superb design that comes to the hand naturally, smoothly and comfortably. The trigger is properly spaced from and aligned to the stock grip, unlike most 98s, and shaped with more or less straight leg and a finger sized 'hook' at the lower end so your trigger finger is centered in the guard on the lowest point of the trigger for proper leverage and control, and doesn't drag along the top of the trigger guard like the Mauser "C" shaped trigger. The trigger on the P14/M17 is also grooved at the 'grip' for better feel and traction.
"The ugly sight ears"...holy smokes, are we talking about a battle rifle or a sporter for fritz in his hochsitz?!? Not only do the "ugly" sight ears protect the foresight, allowing the use of a finer blade, but they allow the eye to find the foresight more quickly, and in poorer light.
#### on closing...battle rifle over sporter again.
Bolt handle: the right location for speed and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb to catch on things or poke you in the back. They fixed later on the K98 - OK, "changed it", since it was already perfect when Paul Mauser finished with it! LOL
Safety: infinitely superior on the P14/M17 to EVERY other Mauser ever built
Aperture backsight; did any service Mauser have an aperture backsight? Other than the P14/M17 that is? I can't think of one.
Full length handguards protect the hands from heat and cold, and reduce reflection. One of those things Paul Mauser must have died too soon to correct I guess. His perfect design of the exposed barrel allowed condensation/water and dirt to migrate down the side of the barrel and underneath it the better to rot the stock and rust the barrel. Maybe that's why they had those handy spring clips on the barrel bands that you sometimes need an effing gorilla to get off: so you can frequently strip your Mauser to clean under the barrel. Keep zee men bizzy, ja!
Long range sights...Mauser never had 'em.
Springfield, bah - not my brief.
How about the nice shiny blue barrel of the Gew98, or the nice "white' action. So pretty, so practical!
Firing pins are changed by armourers and even a civvy like me could change one in a minute flat. The Lee Enfield pin won't kill you if you point it in the wrong direction while you're taking it apart.
And the Germans didn't have the best target rifle, the Ross was that. They did have the best scopes though. Claw mounts sucked however: you twisted the scope tube and the front rings when you adjusted for windage. They got wise to that by the end of WWI however.
All in all I really like the P14/M17. They corrected almost all the faults of the 98 design except the lack of a removable 10 round mag.
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Unless if you were to consider that out of all the other military action rifles you mentioned, the Mauser M98 is still the only one in current almost never ceased production for well over 100 years and still in strong demand that makes it a viable and profitable rifle for Mauser, Zastava, Rigby, Voere, Prechtl, Fanzoj and up until recently Remington to keep making and selling them and Ruger to produce a near clone!
None of the other "Superior" Military bolt action rifles are still in production and most actually ceased production shortly after the second world war!
I guess there must be some good reason for this all to happen? Maybe the people who are demanding them haven't had your experiences, I know I have not in using multiple Mauser rifles over 30 years!
Owners of classic Mauser sporting rifles are also not giving them away when and if they choose to sell them either!
Also I don't know of anybody still making Model T's!
http://www.mauser.com/en/products/m98/m98/
http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civilianproduct/sporting-rifle-m70-standard
http://www.voere.at/en/waffentechnik/jagdwaffen/repetierer-2155.html#specififation-2165
http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/the-big-game.html
http://www.prechtl-waffen.de/prechtl/de
http://www.fanzoj.com/en/gunroom/custom_built_weapons/bolt_action_rifles/mauser.html
"John Rigby & Co. commissioned Mauser to develop the M 98 magnum action in the early 1900s. It was designed to function with the large sized cartridges normally used to hunt Big Five game and other dangerous game species. For this specialized type of hunting, where absolute reliability of the rifle under adverse conditions is very important, the controlled-feed M 98 system remains the standard right up till today by which other action designs are judged.[SUP][/SUP] In 1911 John Rigby & Co. introduced the .416 Rigby cartridge that due to its dimensions could only be used in the M98 magnum action"
[h=2]M 98 – The Legend lives on[/h]
The M 98 is a true classic among bolt action rifles. To this day, Mauser has manufactured approximately 100 million M 98 rifles. The action is machined out of high-grade steel. The large magazine capacity and the reliable 3-position wing safety make the M 98 a highly qualified companion not only for todays but also for future generations of hunters. The Rigby-style cheekpiece and slim contour of the stock round off the elegant design of this rifle. The M 98 is available in special grade 5 rootwood and with ebony fore-end tip.
"The M 98 is still manufactured according to the original drawings and patents. A rifle that does not need any further explanation - a true classic among bolt action rifles."
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! True of almost everything we admire, to include our rifles. I agree practicality wins over beauty when your azz is on the line.
Just for the record, one of the "Rifle" magazine writers wrote about cycling rounds from his push-feed rifles - upside down. They all fed just fine from the magazine. Once the rounds were clear of the feed lips, they were well inserted into the chamber. Ross Seyfried's heavy rifle when he was a PH was a Rem 700 - push feed. It' a non-issue.
I do know of a case where a hunter asked a 'smith friend to glass bed and smooth up a pair of .338 Ruger 77's, the early model that had the Mauser extractor that did NOT control the fed round. He short stroked it when taking on a bear and jammed it up solid. His guide bailed him out with the spare rifle he was packing for the client.
That is the advantage of "controlled round feed". Thanks, Paul.
Just for the record, one of the "Rifle" magazine writers wrote about cycling rounds from his push-feed rifles - upside down. They all fed just fine from the magazine. Once the rounds were clear of the feed lips, they were well inserted into the chamber. Ross Seyfried's heavy rifle when he was a PH was a Rem 700 - push feed. It' a non-issue.
I do know of a case where a hunter asked a 'smith friend to glass bed and smooth up a pair of .338 Ruger 77's, the early model that had the Mauser extractor that did NOT control the fed round. He short stroked it when taking on a bear and jammed it up solid. His guide bailed him out with the spare rifle he was packing for the client.
That is the advantage of "controlled round feed". Thanks, Paul.
What's the issue with a "protruding magazine"?? This isn't a beauty contest.
"Ungainly P14/M17"? I don't know what to say to that! The only rifle that has better natural point in my experience is the SMLE or the 1910 Ross sporters. The P14/M17 stock is a superb design that comes to the hand naturally, smoothly and comfortably. The trigger is properly spaced from and aligned to the stock grip, unlike most 98s, and shaped with more or less straight leg and a finger sized 'hook' at the lower end so your trigger finger is centered in the guard on the lowest point of the trigger for proper leverage and control, and doesn't drag along the top of the trigger guard like the Mauser "C" shaped trigger. The trigger on the P14/M17 is also grooved at the 'grip' for better feel and traction.
"The ugly sight ears"...holy smokes, are we talking about a battle rifle or a sporter for fritz in his hochsitz?!? Not only do the "ugly" sight ears protect the foresight, allowing the use of a finer blade, but they allow the eye to find the foresight more quickly, and in poorer light.
#### on closing...battle rifle over sporter again.
Bolt handle: the right location for speed and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb to catch on things or poke you in the back. They fixed later on the K98 - OK, "changed it", since it was already perfect when Paul Mauser finished with it! LOL (What about the Model 1898AZ?)
Safety: infinitely superior on the P14/M17 to EVERY other Mauser ever built
Aperture backsight; did any service Mauser have an aperture backsight? Other than the P14/M17 that is? I can't think of one.
Full length handguards protect the hands from heat and cold, and reduce reflection. One of those things Paul Mauser must have died too soon to correct I guess. His perfect design of the exposed barrel allowed condensation/water and dirt to migrate down the side of the barrel and underneath it the better to rot the stock and rust the barrel. Maybe that's why they had those handy spring clips on the barrel bands that you sometimes need an effing gorilla to get off: so you can frequently strip your Mauser to clean under the barrel. Keep zee men bizzy, ja! (What about the Model 1898AZ again? And the Ross never had them to the muzzle either!)
Long range sights...Mauser never had 'em. (What do you call these? is 2000 metres not long range enough?)
Springfield, bah - not my brief.
How about the nice shiny blue barrel of the Gew98, or the nice "white' action. So pretty, so practical!
Firing pins are changed by armourers and even a civvy like me could change one in a minute flat. The Lee Enfield pin won't kill you if you point it in the wrong direction while you're taking it apart. (Never, ever come close to a Mauser firing pin injuring, let alone killing me when taking a bolt apart, were did this come from?)
And the Germans didn't have the best target rifle, the Ross was that. They did have the best scopes though. Claw mounts sucked however: you twisted the scope tube and the front rings when you adjusted for windage. They got wise to that by the end of WWI however. (This guy had no problem with his Mauser sniper rifle - Matthaus Hetzenauer, famous German sniper on the Eastern Front of the World War II who was credited with 345 kills observed and his longest confirmed kill was reported at 1100 metres.)
All in all I really like the P14/M17. They corrected almost all the faults of the 98 design except the lack of a removable 10 round mag.
I like P14's and M1917's too.
Give me a Ross rifle with Enfield wood coverage and barrel bands, k31 bolt removal (bolt head doesn'tget out of place) Enfield mag capacity, and mauser safety and that would be a Damn near perfect rifle for me.
The safety is the only thing I love about mausers. And the sling system too.
Ross barrel bands suck in that they don't come off easily, have a tiny screw, and don't clear the front sight.
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The safety is the only thing I love about mausers. And the sling system too.
Ross barrel bands suck in that they don't come off easily, have a tiny screw, and don't clear the front sight.
.
Thanks for making my point for me, by promptly posting pictures of "true 98s" with side swing safeties, sliding safeties, trigger bow mag releases, square bridged guns, and citing manufactures who make nothing like a military 98. Mauser sold their 98 anniversary guns and they were the last true ones. The current 98 only has the name, again, Voere makes its money on mauser mods and add-ons like adjustable triggers, new firing pins and springs, new safeties, new stocks, etc. Remington just used rebranded Zastavas, which again use pretty much nothing of the 98, other than playing on the name. If I take that model T engine and throw it in a new Mercedes it isn't really a model T is it? Likewise, who really builds true 98s? And if you want to say that a Magnum square bridge 98 is a real 98 I would say you are wrong. And even those don't come with a m98 mag floor plate, side slot, charger guide, two stage military trigger, etc. A true 98 isn't just a name used to sell goods, its a demonstrable product, like the model T, etc. Oh and the 98 ceased production a long time ago, mauser style actions, an overly broad used term that people apply to everything is quite erroneous to say the least. A Zastava mini mauser is a prime example, they have as much in common with a mosin nagant as they do a 'mauser'.
