why am I making them crooked???

sharp shooter

sharp shooter

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So I am basically new to reloading but not brand new. I have done some rifle reloading for .30-06 and had no issues but with my .222 Remington my loads suck. The story is as follows:

My brother and I got a Hornady lock and Load kit a few years ago. I loaded .30-06 with it using Hornady dies and they turned out great........
This year I got my own Rock Chucker Supreme Master kit and RCBS dies for my .222 and went at it. It appears that whether I neck size or full length size, the neck becomes slightly crooked. It is noticeable when you roll the brass on a flat surface. It become really apparent when you roll a loaded cartridge on a flat surface.

I noticed that when I put the brass in the shell holder in the press and raise the brass into the sizer die that the brass is already off center from the die while sitting in the shell holder. I am really confused. What makes it worse was that I didn't have any issues like this when I first loaded my first batch off .222 at my brothers on his hornady press with my RCBS dies. WTF?????

I am using WW brass and RCBS shell holder #10


Steve
 
It`s possible the hole for the die and the ram weren`t bored in line or the cut in the ram isn`t letting the shell holder sit properly. Does this only happen with the 222?
 
Does the shellholder line up true to the die when the ram is raised without a brass?
Try orientating the shellholder to a different position, does the brass slide in the holder to center in the dies?
This is assuming there is an alignment issue, almost sounds more like a die issue to me, but if it worked in another press, then likely thats not it...
 
Try sizing a case without the decapping rod and expander and check for concentricy . Screw the decapping rod back in the die and expand the neck and check again. In some dies it is difficult to get the decapping rod concentric with the die body and the above test will let you know if this is the case.
 
When I used my brothers press I used his Hornady shell holder as well. I am leaning towards the fact that its the shell holder but i am going to look into every option here.

Also, forgot to mention that the cases don't all have the same degree of crookedness so I don't think it the die.
 
More inaccurate reloaded ammunition with excess neck runout is loaded because the decapping/expander button is locked down off center than any other reason.

Die setup to remove cartridge case misalignment.

Examine your shell holder for defects and make sure the cartridge does not bind in the shell holder when the case is rotated in the shell holder.

Raise the ram to its extended position, loosen the lock ring on the die, then start screwing the die into the press until it contacts the shell holder. Now adjust the die as per the instructions normally 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn more after contacting the shell holder.

Now place a lubed case in the shell holder and raise the ram into full hard contact with the bottom of the die. The die will now be centered in the press and the die lock ring can be screwed down and locked in position.

Now loosen the lock nut on the decaping/expander button and lower the ram until the expander button just starts to enter the neck of the case and carefully tighten the lock nut. This centers the decapping/expander button in the die and reduces neck runout.

Other tricks for better case alignment is to place a small o-ring under the die lock ring and allow the die to float and be self centering, after the lock ring is just hand tightened.

The same applies by placing a small o-ring under the decapping rod nut and allow it to float and be self centering.

NOTE: Any dents, dings or raised extractor marks on the inside of the cartridge cases extractor groove can and will cause the case to tilt when the case is pulled from the resizing die. This can cause excess neck run out and misalignment.

Also if during manufacture the cartridge case ends up with unequal case wall thickness the case can warp, bend and end up banana shaped. What happens here is the case warping causes the base of the case to no longer be 90 degrees to the axis of the bore. Meaning the case will end up leaning like the leaning tower of Pisa. (see 1, 2 and 3 below and yes it does happen)

runout.jpg


Checking Case Wall Concentricity
by Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2009/07/reloading-audette-neco-case-checker.html

Once your dies have been adjusted as per above you can adjust cartridge case headspace with custom height shell holders or headspace control shims.

shims.jpg


http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/03/sinclair-full-length-sizing-die-shims/

Below Redding competition shell holders
http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=35:competition-shellholder-sets

reddingshellholders.jpg
 
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OK so I tried exactly what Bigedp51 said to do and it helped a bit. I also ran a few cases in the die without the decapping pin and expander ball and the cases came out straight as an arrow. Here is what is still happening:

As I raise the ram upward to the die with a lubed case in the shell holder - the case is still not centered with the die. When the case goes into the die and the expander ball enters the case (crooked because the case isn't centered in the die) is where the problem occurs I think. I believe that the expander ball entering the crooked case creates the run out.

Is a bad shell holder common? Has that happened to anybody else? Has anybody ever had a problem with their cam not being machined perfect??

Any suggestions? I have a new shell holder ordered.
 
I haven`t run into any cams or rams not working out but if your dies worked without crooked necks in the other press but do in the RCBS press i would be looking hard at the press for some misalignment or a bad shell holder. Do you have a problem with other calibers having crooked necks or only the 222?
 
All my other loading was done with hornady equipment in the past. I don't have any RCBS shell hoders for any other cartridges at this point. I called RCBS and they said i should send the press back as the top die hole may be off center and they will send a new press to me. I guess my last resort will be to borrow my buddies dad's shell holders and dies and see if I have the same problem with the case being off center when the cam is raised to the die.
 
well if your RCBS dies worked perfect on the hornady press with hornady shell holder, you can eliminate the dies being the problem right?
the quickest way to see if it is the RCBS shell holder is to try it on the hornady press and the hornady shell holder on your RCBS press

you will quickly see what the problem is through process of elimination
 
well i have it all figured out now. Simple problem. Both my press and dies are poorly manufactured. I took my die to a friends house along with my shell holder and crooked re-sized cases. I also took some fresh 1x fired cases too.

I set up my die in my friends press and resized the fresh 1x fired brass. I rolled the re-sized brass on a flat smooth table and the body had a small wobble and the necks looked better. Therefore the die is forming my brass into a banana shape. I then set up my friends Bonanza Match Set Dies in his press. I then re-sized some fresh 1x fired brass with the Bonanza FL die. The brass rolled out perfectly straight on the table.

I could also feel I big difference between using my die in his press than my die in my press and also noticed a TREMENDOUS difference using his match die in his press. He has an older RCBS press.

I even re-sized all of my crooked cases with my friends Bonanza die and the all straightened out. Just had to run them through the die a few times.

Therefore - my press's cam and die bushing hole at the top of the press are not centered with each other and the standard RCBS FL die set I have sucks. WOW! Anybody else have any problems with RCBS quality like that?

Case closed - I am currently on hold with RCBS right now.
Steve
 
Well I guess the "banana" in my cases wasn't checked after my first batch with the Hornady press (its doesn't stand out). That's how. I didn't say the shells came out perfect I said that I didn't have major issues before. Thanks.
 
Kind of tough to compare your friends match dies against regular full length dies. I have been using RCBS as well as Bonanza and many others and haven`t run into any bad dies yet, I`m not done buying yet ether so i may still comacross some bad reloading equipment. I expect RCBS will make it right.
 
Also tried out my friends RCBS match set as well and had the same results as the Bonanza. The fact that I was able to take the "banana" out of the cases using a match die has me sold. I am going to get some. I just hope that RCBS helps me out.
 
One thing that I have seen with the new Rockchucker Supremes, is that the socket that the shellholder fits into, can be very, very tight. I had to really push hard to fully seat the shellholder in the ram with a couple of the new Rockchucker Supremes.
 
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