Why am I so much better with one pistol than the other?

[BCRider]

Once again the Norc bashers rise up and wave their banners in their usual vociferous manner.

While I'm not a Norc hater I do recognise the fact that Norcs are built to a price and that price often involves less than great quality control. It is possible that it is the fit of the parts in your Norc that is giving you the bad grouping. Out of the brand new guns I've had I've seen it a couple of times where the barrels needed to be fired for a few hundred rounds before the grooves and lands burnished in and the barrels shot straight and true. Two of those were the Norc M213 9mm Tokarevs that I got from Canada Ammo a few years back when they had their $99 sale. So if your gun hasn't seen many rounds it may break in. Or if you've shot it enough that you should be past that point it may be that the barrel to slide and barrel to bushing fits are poor and the barrel isn't seating into the slide the same way each time. This is also often related to an improper link length so that's another issue to check.

So before you give up on 1911's try someone else's 1911 that is a known good shooter and see if you're OK. The fact that you're shooting the Beretta well certainly makes me think that in this case it might be the gun.

You might also want to try some other decent brand of ammo. You don't say what ammo you have at present or if you've tried any other brands of ammo. All ammo is NOT the same. Not by a long shot.... (like the slick way I stuck that pun into there? )

 

[metalslug]

Ensure that the gun slide and barrel are in line with your forearm, to do this the gun handle is rotated counter clockwise (RH) until only the tip of your trigger finger can reach the trigger. Fill in the space on the left side grip panel with your off hand and put the sights on bulls. Now squeeze the gun between your hands until it begins to shake with the effort and back off on the squeeze only until the gun stops shaking...you now have the proper (two handed) grip for a 1911. Once you master the grip it will become 2nd nature and then when you squeeze the trigger...bulls will print (so long as you're controlling breathing, not flinching ect, ect,ect. ).

Thanks, i've been doing it wrong obviously. I'll try this.

You are comparing a Cavalier & a Cadillac.

I test drove what was in the lot that day.

You might also want to try some other decent brand of ammo. You don't say what ammo you have at present or if you've tried any other brands of ammo. All ammo is NOT the same. Not by a long shot.... (like the slick way I stuck that pun into there? )

I've been using American Eagle.

 

[z71camaro]

You might also want to try some other decent brand of ammo. You don't say what ammo you have at present or if you've tried any other brands of ammo. All ammo is NOT the same. Not by a long shot.... (like the slick way I stuck that pun into there? )

Wow, 3 pages and this is the first mention that it might be the ammo! Way too many people focused on the fact he mentioned the dreaded about to explode in your hand can't hit a barn point blank Norinco. LOL (Sarcasm alert!)
At 10 yards the cheapest compact out there can group an ipsc target with the right ammo. Try a couple different kinds and go from there.
Buddy and I chased an issue with his CX4 Storm that turned out to be just a bad batch of ammo (that I'd been using for years with no issue).

After trying different ammo if it's the same result, put it in someone else's hand that you know shoots 1911's well to confirm it's the pistol and not you.

The other thing is that some guns just feel better in the hand than others and you'll naturally shoot better with. I shoot the same tight groups with my CZ Shadowline as I do with my stock Gen4 G17. But put a Sig in my hand and it's all "center mass". What feels good and what you're used to is what you will shoot well with.
I personally am not a huge fan of the 1911's, that being said my buddy's Beretta 92 isn't my fav either.

 

[NVShooter]

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN!?

Why is love-making so much better with one woman than another? (rhetorical).

Obviously for many reasons (not an exhaustive list):

1. Different guns (even if you had two different Norc 1911A1s you could get different results)
2. Different grips
3. Different sights
4. Different trigger
5. Different calibre
6. Different ammo

7. Different expectations from you when shooting
8. Different grip on the gun (good, bad, or otherwise) maybe one grip fits your hands better
9. Different tempo when shooting (?)

Book some range time with a shooting instructor. Take both pistols. Best money you will ever spend. Your shooting will improve dramatically, you will have more fun and satisfaction at the range and best of all, these questions will be answered for you.

 

[tazik]

For me, while my grouping is not so bad with my Beretta 92fs, when I first shoot with my Remington R1e...my grouping was really better then my 92fs right of the box and from my first 10 rounds with it ...., same ammo brand.

 

[S1de8urnz]

I had the same problem with my norinco 1911. Took some shooting, but its gotten much better. Tightening my grip quite a bit really helped out.

I dont know if i became a better shot with the .45, or the barrel broke in. Either way keep shooting and have fun.

 

[metalslug]

I had the same problem with my norinco 1911. Took some shooting, but its gotten much better. Tightening my grip quite a bit really helped out.

I dont know if i became a better shot with the .45, or the barrel broke in. Either way keep shooting and have fun.

Thanks. I'll just keep feeding rounds through it.

 

[BCRider]

Those M213's I mentioned that took some shooting to break in? One took around 150 rounds and the other was tougher and took something up around 250 rounds. But both actually ended up shooting really well once past that initial breakin.

Keep cleaning the bore and keep the lugs on the top of the barrel and in the slide lubricated well. Same with the nose of the barrel. If there's any tight spots you want them to be well lubricated so they slide and form the metal to a good fit instead of galling and tearing at the surfaces. If you don't see the gun "come in" by around 250 rounds then perhaps get someone good at 1911 tuning to have a look at it. It may well be something obvious and easy to fix.

American Eagle ammo is good stuff so it's likely not your ammo.

 

[TheTooner]

You do realize that you are going to Hell when you die, don't you? You might as well have criticized the Pope. It's like the guy on here who said his Nissan Sentra was better than his Aston Martin.

Oops! That was me.

My Nissan Sentra was better than my Aston Martin. Because my Sentra was real.

 

[plinker 777]

Thanks, i've been doing it wrong obviously. I'll try this.



I test drove what was in the lot that day.



I've been using American Eagle.

To add a little more info, the stock trigger on the Norc 1911 is the same length as the original Colt. These are really "short" triggers {not sure why, gloves, safety against AD?} in any event, if you compare the trigger with a modern 1911 build gun you'll notice with the modern ones that there is a discernible difference in the amount of trigger in the trigger guard {more exposed trigger}.

What this equates to is the length of reach on your trigger finger to ensure only the pad is on the trigger. Shorter trigger= the need for more rotation to get a proper hold, longer trigger= a more natural out of the holster hand position. Having said that, with practice the more un-natural becomes natural.

 

[aakoksal]

Some of those 1911 norcs has terrible trigger. Maybe get that trigger worked by a gunsmith. Also, if you are reloading, try some light target loads...

A .22lr conversion kit would help a lot as well...

 

[KevinB]

1911's are generally extremely accurate guns -- the trigger is dead simple and repeatable.

That said Beretta's are generally very accurate as well - and if it was not for the horrible brick feeling and long trigger reach would be an exceptionally accurate pistol.


I would never recommend for anyone to get a 1911 as a first gun, as the trigger can often mask poor shooting.


The fact your shooting a 1911 worse - seem to resonate that your particular 1911 is a Norc and sloppy.

 

[Kevin M.]

^^ Good advice right there folks.

 

[hek76]

To add a little more info, the stock trigger on the Norc 1911 is the same length as the original Colt. These are really "short" triggers {not sure why, gloves, safety against AD?} in any event, if you compare the trigger with a modern 1911 build gun you'll notice with the modern ones that there is a discernible difference in the amount of trigger in the trigger guard {more exposed trigger}.

What this equates to is the length of reach on your trigger finger to ensure only the pad is on the trigger. Shorter trigger= the need for more rotation to get a proper hold, longer trigger= a more natural out of the holster hand position. Having said that, with practice the more un-natural becomes natural.[/QU


dont give up on the gun, dry fire and practice your trigger pull and focus on the front sight so that it doesnt move when pulling the trigger. trigger trigger trigger, some are long with clean breaks some are short with unpredicatble breaks, some are long and mushy like a glock trigger. once you dry fire 1000 times and work on your grip then practice your follow thru and reset. reset is when you shoot your pistol and you keep the triger finger held then slightly release it to hear and feel it break back into firing position. proper trigger control and good resets will give you great accuracy. this is easier said then done i too practice practice practice and im still learning but thats the fun of shooting. you can always get better at it

 

[plinker 777]

^...more great advice OP. I would add a snap cap to the equation, It'll save your poor firing pin from beating itself against the firing pin bore repetitively. (excessive wear)

 

[grinder08]

Personally I shoot my 1911 better than my 9mm not much but better so I don't necessarily agree with the 9mm being easier. Practice Practice Practice. When practicing make sure you concentrate on the basics. Focus on the Front Site. Don't jerk the trigger. Don't anticipate the shot. It should give you a mild surprise. Don't close your eyes, you should see the case eject. You are more prone to these last two with a heavier calibre. Follow through which means maintain full grip until the sites return to the target. Again harder to do with a 45. Oh and last but not least Practice. It takes a lot of practice to get good with a handgun.

 

[duct tape doo]

Norc trigger and sights were my frustration, and the fact that I always have my Shadow at the range to compare groupings with

 

[VanMan]

Some of those 1911 norcs has terrible trigger. Maybe get that trigger worked by a gunsmith. Also, if you are reloading, try some light target loads...

A .22lr conversion kit would help a lot as well...

I have a couple of STI's (Trojan & Targetmaster), anad bought some of the CanAm Norinco 1911's last year just to tinker on. The biggest difference was the trigger. On the Norinco it was heavy, gritty and a lot of creep (for a 1911 trigger that is). At 10 yards, can do 3" groups with the Trojan, and maybe 8" groups with the stock Norinco. After some tinkering with the Norinco trigger, sear and hammer (and deburring the sharp edges), I got the groups down to about 3"s as well. No question though that it's a lot harder to aim with those tiny stock sights that come with the Norinco 1911's.