Why am I trolling for No1 MK3 rifles?

I Dont Care About You said:
My No4 is an Irish Contract rifle so it went straight into cosmoline at the factory and languished in a warehouse for decades until someone bought it for a collection ... and then subsequently sold it to me. Other than coming to Canada it hasn't been anywhere or done anything.
Click to expand...

Century Arms bought the new in the wrap Mk. IIs out of the UK's war reserve,
Some were made for the Brits, some were undelivered ones from the Irish order. When they were not delivered, they went into British stores.
There were Mk. IIs delivered to Ireland, and subsequently sold as surplus. Unlikely that any of these were unissued.
The serial number range for the Irish order is known. Unless the rifle's serial is in the range for the Irish order, it isn't an Irish contract rifle. Even then, it is unlikely to have ever reached the Emerald Isle.
If your rifle has US import makes, it came to Canada, then went to the US, then was brought back to Canada to meet the demand here. Initially, the rifles came to Canada, held in Century's warehouse in bond. Some were cleared into Canada. Most went to the US, a small quantity was brought back.
 
Snider shooter said:
No one has mentioned the Martinl yet. I have a Calvary carbine. Won’t shoot jacketed bullets very well but but does well with cast reloads.
Click to expand...

I mentioned Martinis.

It's strange that your Martini won't shoot jacketed bullets, unless it's one of those with a .315 bore diameter.

There was a time when 303 bullets were all made with ''EXPOSED LEAD BASES"

Over the past 25 years, that practice no longer exists. So, unless you can find a stash of old surplus bullets, with exposed lead bases, you'll likely have to stick with using cast.

I have two full length Martini rifles chambered in 303 Brit.

One has Metford type rounded rifling, intended for Black Powder, which the original conversions were barreled to use and the other had Enfield type rifling which was adopted once Cordite stick propellants were adopted.

There will be an "E" stamped on top of the knox (flat) if the rifling is Enfield type.

My rifle with the Metford style rifling is OK with jacketed modern cup and core bullets. It will shoot into 4 inches at 100yds consistently.

When I shoot some of the old milsurp that were salvaged by pulling them from cordite/corrosive primed ammo, the groups tighten up to about half that, if I do my part.

The purpose of the exposed lead bases was to allow pressures to force the lead into the jacket so it will properly obturate into the rifling grooves. That doesn't happen as readily with modern, solid bottom bullets.

Back in the day, making consistent diameter bores, with +-.0005 variations wasn't doable, so they had to come up with a way to keep accuracy acceptable. With earlier cast lead bullets, they had obturation down to a science they fully understood and accuracy was kept consistent.

With the advent of jacketed bullets, obviously parameters had changed, so they had to find a way to make it all better.

One thing to remember, when a rifle was shooting into 4 moa or less at 100yds, it was considered to be acceptably accurate for most purposes.
 
Last edited:
My barrel Metford rifling and oversized. It shoots a consistent 8” group with Hornady 150’s. My cast it will do 2 to 3 “ groups. I was going to try and rebarrell it but figured I would try cast. Forearm has been cut. I have since found an original nose piece so a future project is to redo the forearm.
 
Snider shooter said:
My barrel Metford rifling and oversized. It shoots a consistent 8” group with Hornady 150’s. My cast it will do 2 to 3 “ groups. I was going to try and rebarrell it but figured I would try cast. Forearm has been cut. I have since found an original nose piece so a future project is to redo the forearm.
Click to expand...

I like your project idea better.

After getting some information from Ganderite, IIRC, I made up some loads with exposed lead bullets over a very compressed black powder charge, for my Martini Metford.

I was quite surprised by how much recoil was generated by this charge, under 220 grain, round nose, cupro nickel bullets, over CCI maganum primers.

I wasn't getting consistent ignition with standard primers.

Upon doing some due diligence, the black powder charge in the original cartridges was compressed to the point of being a porous solid pellet. I also found some very early, pre 1900 catridges that were falling apart and saved the bullets as well as weighed the black powder charges over 30 cartridges.

Even with 4FA, I couldn't get that much powder into the cases.

As mentioned, recoil was very noticeable, even with a reduced charge, when compared to the original.

Velocities of early black powder loaded 303 British cartridge were supposedly 1850fps, with a 215 grain, round nose bullet of .313 dameter. I'm getting the .313 diameter from the records of the bullets pulled from the early BP cartridges. My scale indicated they were closer to 218 grains.

The best velocities I could get with modern 4FA, over CCI magnum primers in surplus Winchester made 1944 date cases was just aroung 1750fps.

One thing I did find was the rifle actually shot better with the BP loads after the first fouling shot.

This came as a surprise to me, because it's not uncommon with patched or cast lead bullets out of other BP firearms.

It's also not unusual with modern rifles shooting jacketed bullets.

For some obscure reason, I had it in my head that the black powder fouling in the Martini Metford would cause accuracy to deteriorate very quickly. Not so. It actually improved after the first couple of shots and the jacket fouling was minimal at best.

I don't shoot BP out of that Martini Enfield anymore. It's messy and very hard on the cases. Still, my personal experiment proved to me that the conversion to ''small bore'' firearms/ammo, with heavy for caliber, heavy/soft jackets was a very reasonable alternative to the older (no diss) rifle/BP cartridge systems.
 
Last edited:
tiriaq said:
Century Arms bought the new in the wrap Mk. IIs out of the UK's war reserve,
Some were made for the Brits, some were undelivered ones from the Irish order. When they were not delivered, they went into British stores.
There were Mk. IIs delivered to Ireland, and subsequently sold as surplus. Unlikely that any of these were unissued.
The serial number range for the Irish order is known. Unless the rifle's serial is in the range for the Irish order, it isn't an Irish contract rifle. Even then, it is unlikely to have ever reached the Emerald Isle.
If your rifle has US import makes, it came to Canada, then went to the US, then was brought back to Canada to meet the demand here. Initially, the rifles came to Canada, held in Century's warehouse in bond. Some were cleared into Canada. Most went to the US, a small quantity was brought back.
Click to expand...

TBH I don't actually care if my rifle is or is not an Irish Contract rifle. The guy I bought it from was a big time collector and he advertised the rifle as being Irish Contract in the sale ad on ####### so I'm gonna take him at his word that it is what he said it is.

This rifle is mint and shows virtually no sign of having been shot. The bolt face was clean and shiny when I got it. Thus I'd entirely believe it was unissued when the previous owner got hold of it.

I have no idea what US import marks would look like or where they might be found?
 
wkp774 said:
Still cant use them, plus anyone else I know.
Click to expand...

Personally, if I have to use iron sights on a rifle or don't like the iron sights on the rifle, I will replace them with a "peep" sight.

Many people just can't get used to a rear ''shadow'' rather than a defined "V" or square notch commonly found on tangeantal sights.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
TBH I don't actually care if my rifle is or is not an Irish Contract rifle. The guy I bought it from was a big time collector and he advertised the rifle as being Irish Contract in the sale ad on ####### so I'm gonna take him at his word that it is what he said it is.

This rifle is mint and shows virtually no sign of having been shot. The bolt face was clean and shiny when I got it. Thus I'd entirely believe it was unissued when the previous owner got hold of it.

I have no idea what US import marks would look like or where they might be found?
Click to expand...

Did he include the bayonet, frog, sling and other accessories that came with the rifle when he bought it???

Some dealers separated the rifles from their accessories, which were covered in cosmo and wrapped in brown paper with green plastic lining.
 
Today is the 127th anniversary of the November 11th, 1895 introduction of the Lee Enfield rifle. Happy Birthday!
 
I took an orphan Arisaka "peep'' tangental sight, which is a very good sight and put it onto a Martini/Enfield that had been cut down for a sporter. That's one of the rifles I really regret selling.

The use of a tangent rear sight with a round orifice, rather than a V or square notch was a very good idea IMHO and makes quick sight acquisition much faster, as well as making for a much better sight picture.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom