Why are there still no stainless shotguns?

formerfarmer said:
Stainless steel is not soft. If anything it is brittle because of the high carbon content. The carbon content is what makes it Rust Resistant [stainless]. Remington has had a "stainless" shotgun for years in it's 870 Marine Magnum.
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Actually it's the high chromium content that makes it stainless and more rust resistant. High carbon rusts easily.

870 Marine Mag is not stainless, it's electroless nickel plating.
 
TDC said:
Aside from bird hunting and clays a shotgun is a dying breed.

TDC
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TDC you are so wrong about that i dont even know where to start.
Hunting
deer, more and more areas in canada and the US are opening up shotgun only areas.

LEO
The tactical/pratical shotgun is one of the most used short range defensive weapons in used today.

Prison service
The #1 go to firearm in service allways will be.

Camping/bear defence
has to be the most used firearm or any armed camper.
a 12.5" BBl 870 with 650gr slug @ 1650FPS will kill just about anything, and easly changed to buckshot for wolf

Home defence
no chancr of over kill in a house with #4 or #2

The shotgun is doing very well and will be around for a very very long time.
 
formerfarmer said:
Stainless steel is not soft. If anything it is brittle because of the high carbon content. The carbon content is what makes it Rust Resistant [stainless]. Remington has had a "stainless" shotgun for years in it's 870 Marine Magnum.
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What you are saying is true in some sense.
What you are seeing is sensitisation.
Chromium carbides precipitate out of the solution during welding.
316L or 416L low carbon rod may avoid formation of chromium carbides.

316 is not heat treatable (low carbon).

416 is okay.

Carbon content

316 has 0.08% carbon
416 has 0.15% carbon
440C has 1.0% carbon
1018 has 0.18% carbon (mild steel)
1045 has 0.45% carbon (high strength steel)

Rust Resistant characteristic comes from minimum 12% of chromium.
Chromium oxide forms a barrier to prevent further corrosion.
 
IMO stainless doesn't bring enough to the table to be worth the bother and expense.

Personally I'd rather see the carbon steel components of a hard use shotgun getting the Melonite/Tennifer treatment rather than being rendered in stainless.
 
formerfarmer said:
Stainless steel is not soft. If anything it is brittle because of the high carbon content. The carbon content is what makes it Rust Resistant [stainless]. Remington has had a "stainless" shotgun for years in it's 870 Marine Magnum.
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I'm pretty sure it's a small amount of Nickel in the alloy that makes it rust resistant. The carbon allows the steel to be hardened through various heat treating processes.
And I would dearly love to have a stainless 870.
 
Remington has had a "stainless" shotgun for years in it's 870 Marine Magnum.
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nickel plating, or any of the more modern coatings, are not stainless.
some of them may have slightly more corrosion resistance in areas where the finish remains intact, but IMO it still does not equal stainless. all of their wild corrosion resistance claims assume that the finish is not scratched off - which tends to happen especially with a gun that sees hard use. theres no finish to 'scratch off' of a solid stainless gun - itll give you the same level of corrosion resistance 20 years from now as it does the day you buy it.

stainless and coated? im sold... just make the damned 870SS first :)
 
ahlsy said:
I'm pretty sure it's a small amount of Nickel in the alloy that makes it rust resistant. The carbon allows the steel to be hardened through various heat treating processes.
And I would dearly love to have a stainless 870.
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This is untrue. As Bearkilr pointed out already, it is the 12% or more chromium content that makes a steel stainless. Nickel does add to the steels stainlessness, but does not define it. However, you are correct about the hardness of the higher carbon content, infact, stainless is much easier to mill compared to the standard chromemoly barrel.

There a few metals they can add to stainless to make it harder. But the only one I can remember is Manganese, someone else might know more.
 
deets said:
However, you are correct about the hardness of the higher carbon content, infact, stainless is much easier to mill compared to the standard chromemoly barrel.
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That would be news to the machinist's I work with. High strength steels machine quite well because they are hard enough and brittle enough to chip off easily. Most stainless steels we are talking about are terrible to machine because they are tough and gummy, will not easily form chips and work harden very easily. It takes slow surface speeds and high feed pressures to cut them well and even then it is hard to get nice surface finishes.

Mark
 
mmattockx said:
That would be news to the machinist's I work with. High strength steels machine quite well because they are hard enough and brittle enough to chip off easily. Most stainless steels we are talking about are terrible to machine because they are tough and gummy, will not easily form chips and work harden very easily. It takes slow surface speeds and high feed pressures to cut them well and even then it is hard to get nice surface finishes.

Mark
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You are correct, in general. I do know the properties of most stainless. I should have been more specific. Regarding specifically gun barrels, I have heared the opposite argument.
Ive been told that the barrel steel on stainless guns is stainless screw stock 416R. This stuff is made to run on auto screw machines at high speed and is moderately easy to machine. Most non-stainless steel barrels are made of AIME 4140 chrome-moly are are moderately difficult to machine.

Although, looking into it, they would probably use a different stainless for the action I would think. Something harder. Dont know off hand what that would be. Maybe someone who knows more can take the reigns.
 
I'm thinking it might have something to do with carrying a shiny gun through the bush.
Also a lack of people interested which means they'd never sell any.

M.
 
stainless does not have to be any more shiny than blued.
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first is Ruger's Target Gray, second is Remington's Trinyte over 416 stainless. third is Gunkote.

as i pointed out earlier, Remington doesnt even blue/park most of their guns anymore. even the finish on my 870P is some sortof paintlike sh*t that is flaking off.
its not 1992 anymore, the whole 'noone wants to walk through the woods with a mirror finish stainless gun' thing is a moot point :D
 
Ever notice how most youtube videos of banana peeled back rifle barrels usually involves stainless?

I'm no metalurgist, but I think it's because stainless is brittle as mentionned before here by formerfarmer). Shotgun barrels are relatively thin compared to rifle barrels rendering the possibily of a higher percentage of accidents from slightly blocked barrels from mud or snow.
 
Woodsman said:
I'm no metalurgist, but I think it's because stainless is brittle as mentionned before here by formerfarmer). Shotgun barrels are relatively thin compared to rifle barrels rendering the possibily of a higher percentage of accidents from slightly blocked barrels from mud or snow.
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^this is what i was wondering, if stainless was somehow unsuitable for thin shotgun barrels.

but then how do you explain the Ruger Red Label?
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Woodsman said:
Ever notice how most youtube videos of banana peeled back rifle barrels usually involves stainless?

I'm no metalurgist, but I think it's because stainless is brittle as mentionned before here by formerfarmer). Shotgun barrels are relatively thin compared to rifle barrels rendering the possibily of a higher percentage of accidents from slightly blocked barrels from mud or snow.
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The most common reason for ruptured barrels on stainless rifles, from what i hear, is temperature related. When the temperature goes down, stainless steel has less fatigue resistance. Its physical properties drop off with temperature. However, stainless has better resistance to heat

ie. shooting in freezing temperatures=bad
 
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