I need sufficiently brutal recoil to hold my attention. If my gun is too comfortable to shoot, I get complacent.
Why aren't ALL 12 gauge shotguns chambered in 3.5"?
- Thread starter Eddie Honda
- Start date
I need sufficiently brutal recoil to hold my attention. If my gun is too comfortable to shoot, I get complacent.
iirc, 3.5 inch shells are loaded to a higher pressure of about 14000psi, while older 3 inch shells are only loaded to about 10-11000 psi, if i remember right. the 3.5 chambers obviously need to be stronger to accomadate these higher pressures, thus higher costs involved in production, plus you usually end up with a heavier gun, which you will end up lugging around with you all day long, for no reason if your hunting upland game birds.
hope this helps
regards
hope this helps
regards
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
All I want/need is a 2 3/4" chamber (ie. I don't even need a 3" chamber, let along a 3.5"), prefer not to have the extra action length of a 3.5" gun, nor the heavier barrels if it were a double.
You are still only considering one use for a shotgun. Neither of your 870's are particularly suited to upland game compared to a light double, either side by side or over under and it makes no sense to chamber those for a 3.5" shell.
This is a horses for courses type of question. For long range waterfowl, your question makes sense. For many other uses, it is rhetorical because even the 3" shells are not used.
Mark
Because the one that is supposed to do it all does not do it as well. Many of the complaints against the express are compaints against the super mag version. The adaption to the big 3.5 is just not as relaible and never has had all the bugs ironed out.
When you put it that way, I feel kinda stupid for asking in the first place...
That was certainly not my intention - just trying to make a point.
Also, and someone said it earlier, the pattern that a 3.5" 12g throws typically isn't very pretty. You'd be better off with a 10g. I think Mossberg tried to combat that by offering an oversize bore, bit I'm not certain. It helps to think of a string of shot like water from a hose: it's not all "up front" - it's stretched out over the path. Some shot will arrive before the rest. You can keep increasing the amount of shot in a cartridge, but at some point, all you're doing is either lengthening that string, or in some cases, trying to fill the same space with more shot than is possible, causing collisions and displacing it, thus leaving large holes in your pattern.
For the most part, they throw a heavier charge of a given shot size at the same velocity as the lighter charge in a 3". Hence the higher pressure; think of launching a 180gr bullet at the same velocity as a 165 in your favorite 30 caliber rifle cartridge. Somthing's gotta change, and in this case it's pressure.
Also as stated, the cycle length of the action is longer whether pump or semi-auto. In the case of break action shotguns, the barrel profile is different to accommodate the longer chamber. This throws off the fine balance characteristics of an O/U gun IMO.
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On the other hand, i would not want to own a gun chambered for 3.5" shells... heavier and longer action than necessary, poor balance and handling, and poorer patterns with anything softer than steel shot. I do all my goose hunting now with 2-3/4" shells, stopped buying 3" shells a few years ago. I set my decoys where they want to feed, call 'em in close, and kill them with efficient fast steel shells that don't kick me silly.
And putting a 3.5" chamber into a classic side by side 12 ga. game gun that weighs just over 6 lbs is beyond silly! As is chambering a 12 ga. skeet / trap / sporting clays gun in 3.5 " or how about a 16 ga. upland gun? and I'm sure the 28 ga. would benefit as much....
And putting a 3.5" chamber into a classic side by side 12 ga. game gun that weighs just over 6 lbs is beyond silly! As is chambering a 12 ga. skeet / trap / sporting clays gun in 3.5 " or how about a 16 ga. upland gun? and I'm sure the 28 ga. would benefit as much....
I'm thinking that using a shorter shell in a 3.5" shotgun is detrimental.
Think about a 2.75" shell. Once the crimp is open, there is 0.75" of chamber the wad has to travel without proper sealing. Lots of gas to escape there. Bad performance.
Think about a 2.75" shell. Once the crimp is open, there is 0.75" of chamber the wad has to travel without proper sealing. Lots of gas to escape there. Bad performance.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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can someone please explain how these are supposed to work to me?
wouldnt overboring a barrel by that much make the shot cup rattle around in the barrel, which would be more of a detriment to performance than a tighter bore?
same goes for foster slugs, obviously.
Obviously they work. Why would a company sell a gun with an over-bored barrel that did not work.
This isn't 1897, the amount of engineering and testing that goes into guns is outstanding. The Mossy 835 is their top-end pump. Of course it works!
When you put it that way, I feel kinda stupid for asking in the first place...
If I had to choose between an 870 express and an 870 super magnum, I don't see any particular advantage in getting the non-supermag, besides maybe saving a couple of dollars. Why not get the one that does it all?
There are No Stupid Questions, Just Stupid Answers !!!
Now having said that , do you drive a Ford or Chevy or a Honda??
It is all a matter of choice and that choice is being perverted by some
F%^&ing Marketing Putz who has just gotten out of College and is trying to pay off his/her Student Loan.
By making it sound like all those 2-3/4 chambered shotguns just can not kill a Goose or a Duck over the decoys , let alone some pass shooting.
Really,the differance of 25-50fps between a 3 inch and 3.5 inch Super Mag isnt going to make a bit of difference to the duck or goose you are trying to kill if you are doing your part in the Art of Shotgunning...
Now how Macho can the Art of Shotgunning really be ?
Tight Groups and Tighter Patterns Guys and Gals.
Rob
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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thank you, your detailed explanation was very helpful. i feel so enlightened
I don't think so...
The difference between a 10 and 12ga barrel isn't that HUGE; under firing, the shot load and wad would just expand to fill the bore, (possibly just the cup and petal portion of the wad) but I don't think there would be any gas leakage past the wad in any case.
It's not like over-boring to fire a .410 through a 12g barrel.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Unless you hunt migratory bird it's a waste IMHO.When you put it that way, I feel kinda stupid for asking in the first place...
But really, all we're talking about here is a an extra half inch or so on the receiver to accommodate the longer ejection port and a longer forcing cone in the barrel, as well as being built to handle the added pressure. If you look at the specs, they only seem to weigh slightly more than a regular shotgun. Doesn't seem like that much of a trade off for the added versatility of being able to put whatever the hell you want through it, know what I mean?
If I had to choose between an 870 express and an 870 super magnum, I don't see any particular advantage in getting the non-supermag, besides maybe saving a couple of dollars. Why not get the one that does it all?
For big game/slugs or upland game/grouse & rabbits....3.5 inch is just not needed.
In your manner of thinking Eddie, we should all deer hunt with .460 Weatherby Magnums and nothing less.
It's a friggin 1.2mm difference. This is in fact huge in this context, I have a couple of different 12G wads in front of me and none seems to be able to open that much. Maybe the 3.5" specific wads allow for more expansion of the gas seal, otherwise I can't imagine what Mossberg is trying to do.
and by the way, 10G overbore doesn't work with slugs
http://www.realguns.com/archives/113.htm
