Why Aren't The 35's More Popular?
- Thread starter Coolhand_Luke
- Start date
35s have been given a little more regard in the last 15 years or so IMO.
I began my website 35cal.com to heighten awareness of the 35 brand about that long ago - for no particular reason. Don't know whether it has helped to do that but I like and use my 35s with no regrets. Also I have never met anyone who says they owned one that didn't work well on large game when loaded properly.
I began my website 35cal.com to heighten awareness of the 35 brand about that long ago - for no particular reason. Don't know whether it has helped to do that but I like and use my 35s with no regrets. Also I have never met anyone who says they owned one that didn't work well on large game when loaded properly.
Once most people want more power than the typical 270 WIN, 7mm REM MAG or 30-06 they seem to move to the 300 or 338 WIN MAG. If they want LOTS more they go straight to the 375 H&H or bigger. So most of the slower (it's a relative term) medium bores just get skipped right over. But just cause it ain't popular don't mean it's no good!
If you really break it down, moose typically die easy relative to their size and elk are often shot far away. Bison and grizzly are rarely hunted by most, so most don't see the need for the medium bores. Regardless, I'm thinking the 9.3x62 must be popular for a reason so one day I'm gonna try one out.
If you really break it down, moose typically die easy relative to their size and elk are often shot far away. Bison and grizzly are rarely hunted by most, so most don't see the need for the medium bores. Regardless, I'm thinking the 9.3x62 must be popular for a reason so one day I'm gonna try one out.
I've come to appreciate most calibers that are modified off of the 30-06 Springfield case. Most of which hold their own in a lot of hunting situations. That includes the smaller 25-06 and the 35 Whelend. The 9.3 x 62 is interesting and deserves mention also. And my armchair studies of ballistics has produced some degree of interest in the velocities and trajectories that each one produces. This includes the 270 and the 338-06. I could see obtaining some of these that could fill in some spots but I don't find the 308 case as interesting. Yet I can appreciate those who do. It takes time to find the pet calibers that one can develop an attachment to, and use on a regular bases. And as mentioned by another poster... The rifle production companies are always trying to generate interest in creating "new" cartridges and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
Not meaning to deviate from the OP's thread - but here is A case in point... One buddy of mine bought a nice Remington 700 - 300 Ultra Mag (Grey laminate/ stainless barrel) and we went out and range tested our rifles. He had his new 300 Ultra magnum and I had a 30-06. We decided to shoot at 250 yards - at fist sized rocks. I hit 4/5 (missing the first) and he hit 2/5 hitting the third and forth attempt. So even though he had the more powerful cartridge - I could handle my rifle better then he was handling his. He was a big man - but didn't like the push-back of the 300 Ultra. I realized that at that yardage I was fine with what I had. We went further in our testing and dropped down to 100 yards. I shot a rock the size of a 2 dollar coin. He couldn't hit his. My best with the 30-06 was a moose at about 450 yards. I have done better out to longer yardages with the 300WM but it is rarely needed.
There is a notion that many shooters have... And that notion is that bigger is better. Nothing wrong with that - if one can handle the rifle and remain accurate with it. The 35's sit in-between mid and larger caliber and for some unknown reason they have not caught on.
Not meaning to deviate from the OP's thread - but here is A case in point... One buddy of mine bought a nice Remington 700 - 300 Ultra Mag (Grey laminate/ stainless barrel) and we went out and range tested our rifles. He had his new 300 Ultra magnum and I had a 30-06. We decided to shoot at 250 yards - at fist sized rocks. I hit 4/5 (missing the first) and he hit 2/5 hitting the third and forth attempt. So even though he had the more powerful cartridge - I could handle my rifle better then he was handling his. He was a big man - but didn't like the push-back of the 300 Ultra. I realized that at that yardage I was fine with what I had. We went further in our testing and dropped down to 100 yards. I shot a rock the size of a 2 dollar coin. He couldn't hit his. My best with the 30-06 was a moose at about 450 yards. I have done better out to longer yardages with the 300WM but it is rarely needed.
There is a notion that many shooters have... And that notion is that bigger is better. Nothing wrong with that - if one can handle the rifle and remain accurate with it. The 35's sit in-between mid and larger caliber and for some unknown reason they have not caught on.
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they logged so much of BC that a 35 bush gun is a thing of the past, not much bush left to use one in heavy cover, now typical shots are a couple hundred yards in wide open fields, something the 35's can do but others can do so much better, so with the changing conditions lots of hunters have had to change the delivery systems and use longer sleeker bullets to reach out to their targets. Just built a 35 rem bolt action and waiting for the parts for a 358 winchester......the 35 is far from dead around here, I am trying to bring it back to life.......
Lots of guys have had awesome luck tuning cast bullets in the 35's, easier and better groups then anything 30 and below
Lots of guys have had awesome luck tuning cast bullets in the 35's, easier and better groups then anything 30 and below
I have always enjoyed your website, Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
My experience with the 35 cal. goes back many decades with a 35 Whelen, long before it became a factory offering.
The same old rifle is still with and on its second barrel, a Bevan King stainless installed by the man himself.
It came into my hands wearing a long gone Lyman Alaskan scope and anytime I could make a sub-three inch group with the also long gone 275 Hornady I was one happy fella.
Now it wears a 1.5-5 Leupold and makes tiny groups with either 225 or 250 gr. loads, still an ugly but dependable old gun.
Absolutely nothing wrong with 35s. I use a 35 rem and a 35 whelen with great success. I believe there usage depends a lot on the area being hunted as well as what is being hunted. As mentioned earlier, a lot of people jump from the small bores up to big bore rifles.
I think some of these guys are just dazzled by big numbers or large bullets, which in turn inspires bragging and BS, not to mention flinching ( which they will never admit ).
I think some of these guys are just dazzled by big numbers or large bullets, which in turn inspires bragging and BS, not to mention flinching ( which they will never admit ).
Standard velocity medium bores never got much traction, despite the protests of their fans that everyone else was sadly misinformed and out of touch with their view of reality. Fans tend to be convinced that since its bigger, its got to be better. This is as much a belief based on intuition as anything else, but people's beliefs are real enough to them. They usually and correctly point out the due to terrain most shots tend to be rather short and at such ranges trajectory is sort of academic. They also feel that there is an advantage on larger game, whether or not said game is actually hunted. They also seem to spend a lot of time thinking about bears.
Small bore users (lets say from 6.5 to 7.5mm for the sake of argument) acknowledge grudgingly that bigger is better than smaller, but usually in the same sentence where they declare their belief that faster is better than slower. They will support this belief by pointing out that the majority of people must agree with them because the market has clearly spoken a long time ago. If range is mentioned they point out that while many shots are close, that's a far cry from all of the shots being close. They will correctly point out that "small-bores" will be in the game at ranges that would have the standard mid-bore guys aren't likely to even dream of. Regarding game size they point out that while bigger game certainly exists 90% of the game in the world isn't one bit bigger than a big Canadian whitetail buck or muledeer. That makes the default average shot not very long at a animal that isn't very big. They correctly observe that they don't seem to struggle to kill these unlucky animals. Regarding bigger animals it will be noted that moose are big pussies, and that elk are both not pussies and have an excellent chance of being a long ways away. Bison? Uh, how many people are actually going to shoot one outside of a farm setting? Grizzlies? There aren't enough to go around, so most people won't get one. Blacks? Well, most black bears aren't particularly big and they aren't hard to kill.
Maybe, it can be boiled down to some people believing that the mid bores might have an advantage in some situations where it really doesn't matter and might have an advantage in other situations that probably aren't going to happen. Some won't even give throw them that meager bone. That isn't much to base a successful marketing stategy on. The .350 Rem, .358 Win and my .35 Whelen are deader than dirt as far as market success. Outside of Africa nobody but enthusiastic hobbiests even know what a 9.3x62 is. Battle is over, guess who lost? The medium that truly succeeded is the one that crowds up against the big guns. The .375.
Its best to keep the two camps apart when whisky is present.
Lots of food for thought here Dogleg, thanks for the reply. You are probably right that if it can't comfortably be handled by a .30 cal 200/220 grain Partition, you are probably getting pretty well into 375 territory. Still, it seems to me that 35 call 250 gr bullet offers that 'inbetweener' performance without the 338 Win Mags recoil. Apparently at least so far the market mostly disagrees. But considering the new popularity of the 6.5s there might still be a chance for the 35 caliber to experience a renaissance as well. I wonder if all they needed was a champion in the sporting press like a Jack O'Conner or Elmer Keith and maybe slaying all manner of exotic game with a 35... seemed to work for the 270 Winchester.
Whelen B the 35 Sambar loads you have are pretty crazy.
Very interesting caliber. Might be better than the .338 for a lightweight 250 grain bullet launcher.
Someone on another sight discussing the cartridge said it would "send the 250 grain .338 win mag guys into a crisis" and I think that it has. I am scrambling to find a published .338 win load with those velocities.
Very interesting caliber. Might be better than the .338 for a lightweight 250 grain bullet launcher.
Someone on another sight discussing the cartridge said it would "send the 250 grain .338 win mag guys into a crisis" and I think that it has. I am scrambling to find a published .338 win load with those velocities.
I've owned a Browning BLR 358 win, Remington Model 7 CDL in 350 Rem. Mag and still own a custom Parker Hale with a match grade Shilen barrel in 35 Wheleln. I wanted more range so I just pruchased a Husqavarna in 358 Norma Mag -225s @2900+ or 250s @2800+ (pics look like a crown grade..drool)....can't wait. Better than the 338wm IMO
The 35's seem to hit harder than paper says they should on game and usually exit and leave a blood trail a house painter would be envious of or drop n the spot. They also shoot flatter than most would have you believe. I like them.
My avatar to the left is the 358win with the whitetail...
The 35's seem to hit harder than paper says they should on game and usually exit and leave a blood trail a house painter would be envious of or drop n the spot. They also shoot flatter than most would have you believe. I like them.
My avatar to the left is the 358win with the whitetail...
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Hey Whelen B I looked but couldn't find...have you done any load work with a 358 Norma Mag ? I get mine in a week
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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1905 for the 9.3x62, and 1906 for the 30-06.
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Had one, took 8 months to find dies and loading components. My take on why they are not popular now is, ammo availability, companies like Winchester pushing 338 wm, reloading component availability, and unlike 375 not seen as a legal caliber for Africa.
Chicken and egg thing, not popular because there is no ammo and components....and vice versa. Red headed step child something like the 257's ....overshadowed by more popular bores around it.
PM sent.
No need for a crisis IMO (I have a nice Sako/338 Win myself) but yep - more MV and energy at the muzzle with the 350 WSM - from a short action with a 22" barrel as well. VERY efficient. Of course the 338 Win may catch up way down range - with better bullets with better flight characteristics. Charlie38's fine new acquisition - the 358 Norma - is a more equal comparison and will best even moreso the 338 Win at the muzzle usually IMO.
Maybe, but ...
O'Conner on the neglected and obsolescent 358
"Mr. 270" (Jack O'Conner) in a 1962 article entitled Deer and Deer Rifles, writes that he "... regards the neglected and obsolescent .358 Winchester cartridge with its 200-grain bullet at 2,530 or its 250-grain bullet at 2,250 as probably the most deadly woods cartridge in existence, not only for deer but for elk and even moose. The .358 has the power and weight to drive deep on the rear-end shot, which the woods hunter all too often has to take."
Keith on using the 35 Whelen in 1937 on a record book griz.
... page 205,"Keith's Rifles for Large Game".....skin was 10-4x9-8; Snug Harbor ,Alaska, 1937, 35 Whelen, 57 gr 4064 with 275 gr WTCCO bullet.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4007399/Re_35_Whelen_Elmer_Keith
I have a pair of Savage 99C's that I want to build up into a matched set of .358s for my twins. My reasoning is that I can load 125 grain pistol bullets at 1000 fps, for lots of low recoil fun while they are young, and when they are ready for it, it can be bear/elk medicine.
Of course I've also considered calibres from 6.5 Creedmore to .40-.308.
Not to hijack the thread too much; but what do you guys think of my plan?
Of course I've also considered calibres from 6.5 Creedmore to .40-.308.
Not to hijack the thread too much; but what do you guys think of my plan?
The OP mentioned that the .35 Whelen is "hanging on by a thread". Actually it has always has been. It wasn't factory loaded until Remington started doing so in the 1980's. It always had a small but loyal following as a wildcat but has never been very popular. A good cartridge but there are many that perform well on the same class of game. I had one and liked it.
