Its kinda funny cause we're discussing details that tier 1 guys only need worry about. I guess these are civilian guns so if we're gonna buy them then shoot them how you like, in the end it only matters if you're having a good time.
Why Bullpups are SICKKKKK!
- Thread starter chrisward3
- Start date
I've always loved the concept of the bull pup rifle. The AUG was a rifle very far ahead of it's time. If I could buy one today, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I have a Tavor on the way, and hopefully some day a RFB. I've shot a Tavor and for off hand shooting it really is nice. The bull pups just balance so well, which makes it easier.
I have a Tavor on the way, and hopefully some day a RFB. I've shot a Tavor and for off hand shooting it really is nice. The bull pups just balance so well, which makes it easier.
Care to share your method of modding?
It will be RT product in the new year.
- Location
- Sudbury, On
Farmer Harv
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Scratchnwin
Shhhh. Don't take the fun out of this by bringing personal choice and logic into it.
Speaking of choice, in the New Zealand Service rifle competitions where they are reasonably readily available vitually no one regularly shoots a Steyr AUG (the one exception is a currently serving member of the NZ Army). The shoots are out to 500m, no weak hand shooting, and fast magazine changes give no competitive advantage, thereby mitigating most of the disadvantages of the AUG. The preference is for AR15's and PE90/SG550's. Under our competition rules the rifles basically have to be stock so no trigger tamers etc. People only shoot the AUG is to be different or in the case of serving military personel to use a system they are familiar with. Admittedly this doesn't take into consideration the advantage of it's size in confined spaces, but that is beyond the scope of my experience and intended use of the rifle. I just thought you might be curious what people shoot who have the option.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't know man. The SAS disagree with your point of view. They vocally and officially shunned the British Army issue bullpup, and favour a 16 inch AR platform.
I have also heard if a lefty tries to shoot the British bullpup, he will eat hot brass. No lefty option I think.
One lesson of the Vietnam War, noted by US combat veterans, was the welcomed presence of LH firers, while on foot patrols, in infantry units.
The lefty naturally covered an arc that a RH soldier could not do naturally. Handy thing in an ambush.
Edit: One thing I must ask: How is that muzzle blast, being much closer to your face & ears?
And how do private owners feel about a possible reload KB right under your face. Kind of snuffs out any coolness factor.
Last edited:
Shhhh. Don't take the fun out of this by bringing personal choice and logic into it.
Personal choice sure, but where does the logic come in??
I don't understand what armchair commando has to do with anything? Understanding the attributes of a rifle and those that are desirable has nothing to do with being an armchair commando. Such information and knowledge is more akin to understanding ones discipline and the equipment involved. Regardless, if such armchair commando talk is present it should be easy to identify and pick apart. The way I see it. The armchair commando talk is ripe with such statements as "I just want to hunt and plink with a compact non-restricted, cool looking rig". Clearly looking cool is something only serious tier one operators are concerned about.... No?
The only attributes being championed by the bullpup "non armchair commando" crowd are directly linked to the same armchair fantasies of the other side. Those attributes being compact size for CQB and increased effective terminal range. Of course, seeing how only an armchair commando would be interested in such attributes I can't see how these are desirable for the open field varmint hunting plinkers or the paper punching static position shooters. Then again, what would I know. I've posted the pros and cons of each system and the only responses are discrete ad-hominem attacks and the desire for a cool looking rifle. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never heard of any performance benefits(either firearm or shooter) that arise from "looking cool".
TDC
Benefits of a bullpup for "real" civilian life.
1) Compact size for transporting in or on vehicles (trucks, quads) and walking/hiking etc. Without the need for a folding stock which are in many cases less stable and less durable (The Swiss arms folder is one of the very few that I actually like, it's the exception to the rule). Even the magpull CTR, Sopmod and other high end collapsible stocks sometimes have a tiny bit of wiggle. The cheap stuff has a lot of play. A collapsible stock on a non bullpup rifle with the same sized barrel as the bullpup will still be longer.
2) A longer barrel doesn't mean more accurate, however it does mean more velocity. For varmint and target shooting these are very positive attributes. High velocity while still being accurate is king with varmint shooting. It's one of the reasons the .204 is often favoured over the .223. Also for target shooters and long range shooters a 1:7 twist (such as the Tavor) with heavier ammo benefits greatly from a longer barrel. This allows you to shoot the heavier ammo. With a bullpup you get this advantage without the awkwardness of the longer barrel.
3) Off hand shooting. The weight of the bullpup rifle balances closer to the mass of the shooter. This allows a person to aim longer and with less effort on a target. Even at 100 yards this is noticeable in positional shooting. Not all varminting is stationary shooting. Many walk and shoot, or call in Coyotes etc. Advantage bull pup.
4) Other than the mag changes, the ergonomics on many of the bull pups are excellent.
I'm actually a very big AR fan. I really love those rifles. While not an "operator", expert etc I can say that I have shot both type of rifles. I consider the AR a very nice handling and handy rifle/carbine. That being said I found the TAvor even more comfortable for shooting 3 position off hand. Something that is more likely to happen in combat, is useful for hunting and , and even some types of varminting.
Shoot one before you make a judgment call on it. There's more to it than just the spec sheets.
Farmer Harv
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Scratchnwin
Seriously TDC? Do you really not get it? Or are you being deliberately obtuse? I'll type it out very slowly again for you...we want and like the Tavor because it's something we want and like. The reasons are inconsequential. The only words that matter are want and like, and you can probably even toss the like as long as the want is there.
Oh, and sorry if I was one of the responders with the discrete ad-hominem attacks. I'll make sure not to be discrete next time.
As to the topic at hand, I have always thought bullpups were way cool (and by cool I mean totally sweet) and even got to fondle an Aug once in 89 or so which really cemented the deal. When I heard about the fully ambidextrous (incorrect marketing terminology btw...it should read: fully convertible to left hand use) Tavor it wasn't long before I had one in my grubby little paws, and will be ordering a non-res FS2000 once they're available also. Will be fun to compare these two, as they are about as far apart in design, concept and "features" as they can get.
Sadly, as much as I'd like to collect the full set (including a non-res Micro Tavor...mmmm) I'll have to pick a favorite and sell the other. Might be like having to choose which child to sell into slavery (which might allow me to keep both rifles now that I think of it), but I don't think the CFO will allow both to stay in the house for more than a short while. Much like some relatives.
So are there any other bullpups in development or the pipeline currently? Or is everyone watching what's happening with the current rifles before going back to the drawing board?
Oh, and sorry if I was one of the responders with the discrete ad-hominem attacks. I'll make sure not to be discrete next time.
As to the topic at hand, I have always thought bullpups were way cool (and by cool I mean totally sweet) and even got to fondle an Aug once in 89 or so which really cemented the deal. When I heard about the fully ambidextrous (incorrect marketing terminology btw...it should read: fully convertible to left hand use) Tavor it wasn't long before I had one in my grubby little paws, and will be ordering a non-res FS2000 once they're available also. Will be fun to compare these two, as they are about as far apart in design, concept and "features" as they can get.
Sadly, as much as I'd like to collect the full set (including a non-res Micro Tavor...mmmm) I'll have to pick a favorite and sell the other. Might be like having to choose which child to sell into slavery (which might allow me to keep both rifles now that I think of it), but I don't think the CFO will allow both to stay in the house for more than a short while. Much like some relatives.
So are there any other bullpups in development or the pipeline currently? Or is everyone watching what's happening with the current rifles before going back to the drawing board?
