Why Bullpups Aren't A Good Idea

I love reading the bullpup hyperbole. Most the arguments against them are so reaching. Trigger is too heavy, not enough rail estate, slow reloads, bore offset, wml's cast a shadow, bla bla bla, yap yap yap.
Just about every bullpup out there was designed to be a fighting rifle. Are the things I mentioned all you consider in choosing a fighting rifle?
Or are these more important?
-Reliability
-durability
-will it run dirty
-and can you hit what you point it at.
Everything else is personal preference, and personal ability. Just because you can shoot a AR better than a bullpup doesn't mean that somebody else can't shoot a bullpup better than a AR. I know I'm better with my Tavor than I am on an AR. I'm also better with my Tavor than my buddy is with his Noveske. And by a long shot too (pun intended). So at this point what the hell dose it matter about bore offset, after market accessories, ect. I'd bet there is guys out there that are 10 times better with their lever action than you'd ever hope to be with your AR. All I'm getting at is that the biggest variable is the person operating the gun.
I got my Tavor primarily for home defence. Being that I'm only a Canadian citizen this is the only situation I'd ever have to use my firearm for fighting. And in this role you couldn't convince me a AR would be better. My friends 10.5 Noveske with the sock adjusted were I'd be comfortable is about 3.5" longer than my Tavor. And it's not nearly as balanced. I can open doors while mataining good control over the weapon. It's more maneuverable, and has better ballistics than a sbr. But most importantly I'm a better shot with it.
 
canucklehead said:
To be fair, if AR's were non-restricted (and short barrels didn't matter), you'd likely be hard pressed to find someone with something else. Same reason I own an ACR. It's like an AR, but NR. So.... better. :)

However - it's a MOOT (not mute ;)) point as you suggested since AR's ARE restricted, and will likely remain that way for my lifetime.
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Ha! Right you are! I've nipped that in the butt ... errrr bud... and used it correctly here. :)

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1016870-If-what-we-need-is-a-better-bullet-then-this-is-it?p=9574482&viewfull=1#post9574482
 
I could convince you in about 5 minutes on the range doing simple drills.

There is a difference between you and your buddies blasting away, and trying to keep up during skills and drills with a trained instructor.

That is why pretty much every SF unit in the world is running an M4 clone. They work better than the alternatives.
 
Gunnerlove said:
I could convince you in about 5 minutes on the range doing simple drills.

There is a difference between you and your buddies blasting away, and trying to keep up during skills and drills with a trained instructor.

That is why pretty much every SF unit in the world is running an M4 clone. They work better than the alternatives.
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What do I care about what you can do with your rifle? You could very well be a better shooter than me, anything is possible. I only care about what I'm most proficient with. I'm faster, and a better shot with the Tavor. That makes the Tavor a better gun for me.
It's definetly a serviceable rifle. It's Reliable, durable, can run dirty, and is accurate enough. Everything else falls to training.
 
Gunnerlove said:
I could convince you in about 5 minutes on the range doing simple drills.

There is a difference between you and your buddies blasting away, and trying to keep up during skills and drills with a trained instructor.

That is why pretty much every SF unit in the world is running an M4 clone. They work better than the alternatives.
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It could also just be a case of if it aint broke don't fix it. They have been running those guns for so long they dont want to change. Doesnt mean the Tavor is not serviceable.
 
Madmardigan said:
I love reading the bullpup hyperbole. Most the arguments against them are so reaching. Trigger is too heavy, not enough rail estate, slow reloads, bore offset, wml's cast a shadow, bla bla bla, yap yap yap.
Just about every bullpup out there was designed to be a fighting rifle. Are the things I mentioned all you consider in choosing a fighting rifle?
Or are these more important?
-Reliability
-durability
-will it run dirty
-and can you hit what you point it at.
Everything else is personal preference, and personal ability. Just because you can shoot a AR better than a bullpup doesn't mean that somebody else can't shoot a bullpup better than a AR. I know I'm better with my Tavor than I am on an AR. I'm also better with my Tavor than my buddy is with his Noveske. And by a long shot too (pun intended). So at this point what the hell dose it matter about bore offset, after market accessories, ect. I'd bet there is guys out there that are 10 times better with their lever action than you'd ever hope to be with your AR. All I'm getting at is that the biggest variable is the person operating the gun.
I got my Tavor primarily for home defence. Being that I'm only a Canadian citizen this is the only situation I'd ever have to use my firearm for fighting. And in this role you couldn't convince me a AR would be better. My friends 10.5 Noveske with the sock adjusted were I'd be comfortable is about 3.5" longer than my Tavor. And it's not nearly as balanced. I can open doors while mataining good control over the weapon. It's more maneuverable, and has better ballistics than a sbr. But most importantly I'm a better shot with it.
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Very well said.

This is what I was trying to say about the L85. I don't care if everyone else thinks it's junk. I can shoot better, faster and run it harder than any other rifle I've operated. That means ME. It's like a truck argument for buying. We all have our own preferences.

The fact of the matter is that people seem to base fact merely on opinion.
 
Isn't that enough? He loves the rifle, just leave him be. We all know you guy's hate it but that's not going to change his opinion and he's not going to change yours so lets move on shall we.
 
I'm enjoying life with my M14 bullpup conversion, I just wish that it was 2 lbs. lighter.

100yards%20%281%29.jpg
 
I have used bullpups (IWs & Tavors) and conventional layout rifles (L1A1s, L119s yadda, yadda, yadda) in service capacities and have only this to say; it all boils down to the manual at arms. You learn how to run the issued weapon to exceed standard and get to ####ing work. I feel that when some wog comes out and says that bullpups are no good, they are talkin' out their ass. As for accuracy, I have run SA80s and Tavors out to 500m no trouble. Heck, when the IW came online they had to redo the marksmanship requirements because everyone was scoring marksman. The SUSAT was the best thing to come out of that program, however the rifle, while outstanding in concept, fell short in execution. The love affair lasted until qualification was done. Then trigger op-rod pins and mag retention springs began to walk out and barrels got pulled out of receivers and so on.

I wish it was the rifle they said it was. I hope the squaddies on the sharp end today have the rifle they promised us in the 80s.

Having said that, Jeebus I miss Bess. You Old Army squaddies ken to that. ;)

-S.
 
One Lung Wonder said:
That is one sweet ride, H2O! What is the muzzle blast like off that beast?
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Thank you ... the blast with the Good Iron muzzle brake installed (not pictured) was enough to fold my Magpul MBUS PRO down.
I'm using a 16.25" barrel... I don't think the issue would exist with a 22" barrel.

Because of this, I switched back to the DC Vortex and keep the suppressor on it 99% of the time.
The suppressor increases gas blow back that causes my eyes to tear up indoors... I am working on a simple deflector.

BTW, the rifle is fun to shoot with the Aimpoint removed using just the iron sights.

I had to Google the FAMAS

1339146-capachat_famas_400701.jpg
 
Another reason to own a bullpup... Canada's shortest DMR rifle! ;) Swapped the forend for the railed one, added Larue bipod, and a NF 2.5-10x24 optic.

Oh and if you're wondering why I have a Magpul RSA on there... since I'm a lefty, if I use the standard front 'hook' point, the MASH clip can block the ejection port. Never did have a problem with it ejecting, but wanted to move the ERT sling out of the way to be sure.

88235634-9C62-4AD4-8364-4C49DC76662E-11528-0000202610D1C829_zpse05bd26a.jpg
 
The 2.5-10x24 is hard to find these days. One just sold on here for around $1600. They still make them for LEO/Mil, but now civvies can only order the 2.5-10x32. Never tried a Zeiss, so can't say for sure... but I own 4 NF optics and love them.

Really like this optic... reticle isn't my first choice (NP-1) as I'd prefer something with ranging, but for me it works great. I think this will be my go-to Coyote setup.
 
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