why heavier bullets for .223

I see fellows at range shooting 50 to 55gr bullets out of 223,22-250, and 204 s shooting smaller bullets driving them really hard, thinking they will shoot so flat, well some shoot some very good groups at 100y but when we have little shoots at 300y for toonies or loonies those 50gr bullets don't run with the 223Rem with 69 to 90gr bullets. there groups are usually triple the size what the 223 with heavy bullets will do.There is a member with a 22-250 and 1/8 twist when he gets a load worked out. He will run with the 223 and even better out farther
manitou
 
lannard said:
so its sort of likr throwing a golf ball and a ping pong ball? heavier will go farther, hit harder and be effected less by wind?

what about bullet stability? will a heavier bullet stabilise after a lighter one?
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Stability mostly comes from the twist rate of the barrel the heavier/longer the bullet the faster twist you need to stabilize the bullet.
 
I would like to try some loads with the heavier bullets but where can I get them? I am thinking of trying some 68 to 70gr. bullets. What brand would work best with my Lee dies? Most places say they are on backorder. I hate seeing that word.
 
Well, I ordered some 69gr. Sierra HPBT bullets from Cabela's (.223 caliber) I am using Hodgdon H4895 powder and CCI #400 primers. I was wondering why the Hodgdon reloading data sheet says the COL must be 2.235? I would think that a person would want a COL of 2.25 or even 2.26 maximum. Cripe, with 24 grains of my powder (minimum load ), it just about comes up to the neck of the casing. Wouldn't that seated bullet actually compress the powder at their suggested COL? Should I get a powder that doesn't require so much in the case? Perhaps H335 or BL-C(2) but the velocity really drops off.
 
Denn0001, nice choice of powder primer and bullets, that ought to work very well for you. What kind of brass are you using? (there is a variation in internal capacity between different kinds). If you can tolerate the minor handling hassles of using a short-stick powder in a .223 (watch for occasional bridging in the case neck or powder thrower, and also powder spills from nearly-full cases), you should be happy to know that you are using components that are as good as any out there. If you don't want to put up with those hassles, you can use a ball powder such as H335 BL(C)-2, WC748 etc. Personally, I would use H4895.

You'll almost certainly end up with a compressed load of powder by the time you work things up. Nothing wrong with this at all. Just be careful when you're handling the charged cases to avoid spilling powder.

Magazine length is 2.26". I wonder if the Hodgdon data sheet that you are referring to mentions that the load was developed in a particular bolt action rifle?

As Ganderite advised, disregard magazine length recommendations, load your ammo fairly long but just clear of the rifling (anywhere from .010" to .050" off the rifling is good to start), and start by working up your powder charge. Once that is reasonably consistent, perhaps do some minor experimentation with bullet seating depth.
 
Thanks rnbra-shooter. I am not sure how much headspace exists in my Mini14. I guess I could find out by searching the web. I am planning on getting a bolt action Stevens 200 or a Marlin XS7 with the idea of accurizing it. I will not be using the 69gr. loads in my M4 just the 60gr. and standard 55gr. My idea is to do some accurate shooting out to 300 yards and that is where the 69gr. and a bolt action rifle come in. ( with a decent scope )
 
Denn0001 said:
Thanks rnbra-shooter. I am not sure how much headspace exists in my Mini14. I guess I could find out by searching the web.
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I assume you mean "throat length" (which affects where you seat a bullet) and not "headspace" (which affects how the brass fits the chamber).

For your M4 and your Mini 14, load to a length that fits your magazines. You can either use the industry standard 2.26", or you can try a longer length so long as you reliably fit *your* magazines.

I would suggest at least trying a few magazine-length 69s from your two semiautos. They might shoot well enough to make it worthwhile using 69s for all your .223s.

Also, if your Stevens arrives before your Sierras, try the Nosler 60 BTs in it - I would expect them to shoot very well, out to at least 600 yards.

If you have several different brands of brass, you could choose to use one brand for the boltgun and the other brands for your semis. Commercial Winchester is quite good, it would be a good choice for the bolt gun. (and use disposable brass for your Mini 14, since it does such a good job of "disposing" of brass - better than thirty feet away, always into grass, every time I've fired one! ;-)
 
rnbra-shooter said:
I assume you mean "throat length" (which affects where you seat a bullet) and not "headspace" (which affects how the brass fits the chamber).

For your M4 and your Mini 14, load to a length that fits your magazines. You can either use the industry standard 2.26", or you can try a longer length so long as you reliably fit *your* magazines.

I would suggest at least trying a few magazine-length 69s from your two semiautos. They might shoot well enough to make it worthwhile using 69s for all your .223s.

Also, if your Stevens arrives before your Sierras, try the Nosler 60 BTs in it - I would expect them to shoot very well, out to at least 600 yards.

If you have several different brands of brass, you could choose to use one brand for the boltgun and the other brands for your semis. Commercial Winchester is quite good, it would be a good choice for the bolt gun. (and use disposable brass for your Mini 14, since it does such a good job of "disposing" of brass - better than thirty feet away, always into grass, every time I've fired one! ;-)
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Sure is nice to hear from someone who is familiar with a variety of firearms. Yes, I have been doing more research on loading with the heavier bullets and most say to seat the bullet to the magazine that will accept that particular length. I will seat the bullets to 2.25 or a bit over but I try to avoid the maximum of 2.26 as the tips of the bullets brush the magazine wall in the LAR15 mags. I had to laugh at your comment about how the Mini14 throws the brass on ejection. So true. Then the search is on in the weeds and grass or apologizing to the fellow to my right for hitting him with hot brass!! The Mini14 and the M4 are both hard on brass as they leave dents from ejection and the brass bouncing off the concrete. The M4 is a little bit more friendly as it neatly piles the brass 4 feet in front of me. I wrote to Lee Precision about crimping the bullets, which I do, and how some people say not to crimp a bullet with no cannalure. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die which doesn't dig the brass into the bullet so I think I am good to go, Thanks again.
 
It appears that Marlin does not yet produce the XS7 in .223 caliber. Smallest is .243 caliber. To bad really as the Marlin has a nicer stock although still plastic. I guess it will be the Stevens 200 in .223 for less than $400.00 The stock can always be changed later and th Stevens has very good reviews on shooting accurately right out of the box. There are numerous article on people who have accurized the Stevens 200 by simply changing out the barrel and trigger group. I don't think I would go too far in swapping stuff out. Maybe the trigger and a better stock.
 
Denn0001 said:
There are numerous article on people who have accurized the Stevens 200 by simply changing out the barrel and trigger group. I don't think I would go too far in swapping stuff out. Maybe the trigger and a better stock.
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I don't know what kind of stock the Stevens 200 has. the lower end Savages a number of years ago had a lightweight black plastic stock that had quite a flmisy forend. It was free floated, but so easily deflected that with the weight of the rifle on a bipod, it took only a little bit of leaning or pressure by the shooter to cause the barrel to touch the stock.

Change the barrel if it doesn't shoot well enough for you; if it does shoot well enough, it doesn't need changing!

I am quite happy with factory Savage triggers (mine are both 15-ish years old). Personally I wouldn't bother upgrading them, I think they are good enough to shoot in a national match quite honestly.
 
The Stevens 200 stock is the only thing that got a bad review but what does a person expect for sub $400.00. Obviously the part that everyone liked was the action and the stock barrel. There was some discussion about the stock fit and how to improve on it. Most of the modifications were performed by the purchasers themselves and that's the part I liked. This is a fairly new rifle for Savage so maybe the bipod wont cause flexing but I understand what you mean. I may shoot off of sandbags but I do like my bipods.
 
Here is a quote from one blog that points at what you were saying.

"I got a Stevens in .223 about 2 years ago. It is an excellent rifle and quite accurate. Is now my main coyote rifle. I shoot mostly handloads and out to 300yds it does very well. Our range goes to 400 yds, mostly steel gongs past 200 yds. Great fun to shoot at 300 and watch the steel start swinging and wait for the sound to get back. The Stevens has a 1 in 9 twist, so it shoots 50-69 gr bullets very well.
Only thing to watch for is the tupperware stock is flexible in the forearm, so make sure there is plenty of clearance between the barrel and the stock."

So maybe a good stock will be the first thing to look at. I see your point. Now, where to find a stock?
 
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