Why Hollow Point

billbmcleod

billbmcleod

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I have noticed over the years that Match bullets are quite often hollow point. Why? To me a nice pointy bullet would be the best bet but I only load for hunting so I have limited knowledge about dynamics. A 400 yard shot would have to be perfect conditions for me to take it.
 
Match hollow points aren't like pistol hollow points. Next to nothing and little to no effect on the BC. Its only a result of the manufacturing process and not a design for expansion etc
 
The open nose has to do with forming the copper jacket around a core. Working from back to front must be more precise than nose to base with FMJ.
 
Very interesting. I was talking with the manager of my LGS a couple of weeks back when I was able to be in the store and he mentioned this, that the match rounds are not FMJ, but hollow point (he said the same). I thought he was pulling my leg.

So is the inverse true? He indicated to me that some people use match grade grounds for hunting. I would imagine because it is not FMJ there would be some expansion, even if it is minimal. Perhaps the LGS person was saying that match grade would be better for hunting than regular FMJ, but not as good as the actual hunting rounds (I just ordered some Hornady Superformance Varmint VMAX and Nosler Armageddon and they both have the ballistic tip (no not really hollow points per se, but on impact, I guess the tip is gone and they expand and fragment like crazy). Imagine that the match grade hollow points don't quite do that but do people use these in hunting scenarios due to the accuracy factor?
 
thegazelle said:
Very interesting. I was talking with the manager of my LGS a couple of weeks back when I was able to be in the store and he mentioned this, that the match rounds are not FMJ, but hollow point (he said the same). I thought he was pulling my leg.

So is the inverse true? He indicated to me that some people use match grade grounds for hunting. I would imagine because it is not FMJ there would be some expansion, even if it is minimal. Perhaps the LGS person was saying that match grade would be better for hunting than regular FMJ, but not as good as the actual hunting rounds (I just ordered some Hornady Superformance Varmint VMAX and Nosler Armageddon and they both have the ballistic tip (no not really hollow points per se, but on impact, I guess the tip is gone and they expand and fragment like crazy). Imagine that the match grade hollow points don't quite do that but do people use these in hunting scenarios due to the accuracy factor?
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Yeah, lotsa people use match ammo hunting, especially long range hunting. It's all a compromise, at closer ranges typical hunting bullets do a better job of expanding but they aren't generally as accurate and have worse BC so they suffer at distance (with regards to hitting where one intends) whereas the match bullets are more accurate (hence increasing hit probability) and their thin jackets tend to fragment. It's all dependent from bullet to bullet. Hornady ELDMs are quite popular to hunt with, as far as match rounds go.
 
Thanks guys. I would guess that the guy using match bullets for very long shots has the capability of putting a bullet where it counts. I however will still go with a Partition to the lungs with my 300 or maybe even 400yd. shots. Now I also understand why match bullets have an open tip.
 
I have a bit of a theory on this. A normal cup and core, exposed lead tip bullet gets a bit unpredictable at range. Depending on velocity the lead tip starts to melt and the tip deforms. So, if there was no lead at the tip, it should stay consistent. So for long distance match shooting, they made match bullets with small open tip. IMHO the small open tip is not that good at expanding, however the thin jacket seems to make up for that. When Hornady started using a high temp polymer tip, it changed the game somewhat.

I realized the melting phonomime when I recovered a 338 Lapua bullet just shy of 300 yards, lead had dripped out of the nose.

Nitro

To answer post below: Snow. It weighted 165 gr. and I can see the melted crater in what's left of the lead core, I was surprised.

R1r4UhL.jpg
 
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nitro-express said:
I have a bit of a theory on this. A normal cup and core, exposed lead tip bullet gets a bit unpredictable at range. Depending on velocity the lead tip starts to melt and the tip deforms. So, if there was no lead at the tip, it should stay consistent. So for long distance match shooting, they made match bullets with small open tip. IMHO the small open tip is not that good at expanding, however the thin jacket seems to make up for that. When Hornady started using a high temp polymer tip, it changed the game somewhat.

I realized the melting phonomime when I recovered a 338 Lapua bullet just shy of 300 yards, lead had dripped out of the nose.

Nitro
Click to expand...

What did the 338 Lapua impact at such a short distance to not deform the bullet?
 
thegazelle said:
Very interesting. I was talking with the manager of my LGS a couple of weeks back when I was able to be in the store and he mentioned this, that the match rounds are not FMJ, but hollow point (he said the same). I thought he was pulling my leg.

So is the inverse true? He indicated to me that some people use match grade grounds for hunting. I would imagine because it is not FMJ there would be some expansion, even if it is minimal. Perhaps the LGS person was saying that match grade would be better for hunting than regular FMJ, but not as good as the actual hunting rounds (I just ordered some Hornady Superformance Varmint VMAX and Nosler Armageddon and they both have the ballistic tip (no not really hollow points per se, but on impact, I guess the tip is gone and they expand and fragment like crazy). Imagine that the match grade hollow points don't quite do that but do people use these in hunting scenarios due to the accuracy factor?
Click to expand...

I exclusively use match bullets on coyotes and other fur bearers becuse they're more gentle on pelts.
 
thegazelle said:
Very interesting. I was talking with the manager of my LGS a couple of weeks back when I was able to be in the store and he mentioned this, that the match rounds are not FMJ, but hollow point (he said the same). I thought he was pulling my leg.

So is the inverse true? He indicated to me that some people use match grade grounds for hunting. I would imagine because it is not FMJ there would be some expansion, even if it is minimal. Perhaps the LGS person was saying that match grade would be better for hunting than regular FMJ, but not as good as the actual hunting rounds (I just ordered some Hornady Superformance Varmint VMAX and Nosler Armageddon and they both have the ballistic tip (no not really hollow points per se, but on impact, I guess the tip is gone and they expand and fragment like crazy). Imagine that the match grade hollow points don't quite do that but do people use these in hunting scenarios due to the accuracy factor?
Click to expand...

You cannot use fmj for hunting in lots of provinces and match ammo is for target poking unless you use a "match" expanding bullet like a eld-x or so.
 
rugbydave said:
What Cappy said. That's also why the marketing talk these days refers to them as "open tip match" (OTM) instead of "hollow point".
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I think the genesis of the term "Open Tip Match" had more to do with expanding bullets being prohibited by the Hague Convention in 1899. OTM bullets are not designed to expand which made them permissible for use in combat. This came about in the Afghanistan conflict when snipers were dealing with much longer range shots than they had been previously. OTM bullets worked a lot better than any FMJ ever will and with some wordsmithing and a good amount of press, voila...Match Hollow Points became Open Tip Match, perfect for use on the muj.
 
I would imagine that in terms of hunting, shot placement takes precedence over bullet performance. Though I'm no hunting expert, by a long shot, I have heard renowned hunters suggest the same. Match grade ammunition likely provides the greatest consistency in terms of factory loads.
 
Match/OTM projectiles are drawn from thicker jackets than hunting projectiles w/ varmint projectiles of thinner jackets to prevent ricochets.

Exposed lead tip hunting projectiles will loose weight when used in match conditions prior to making to the target since the lead tip is vaporizing in flight.

Reverse drawn/open heel projectiles have the same issue in the bore upon firing.

Nosler Partitions are JUNK....shoot them backwards to retain their weight & reduce bore leading/copper.
 
Common FMJ with an exposed lead base has the advantage in military use of decoppering the bore with each shot. Old 303 used to have the point of the bullet filled from the inside with a cone of wood or aluminum to prevent the core from pushing forward while keeping weight to the rear.
 
A pointy tip has area out front wobbling around the axis of bullet spin while the open tip has its circumference staying around the axis and its more stable. Whatever upsetting drag the pointy tip has is going to be greater than the upsetting drag of the open tip. That’s just my theory. I can’t see any other reason, if the flight were perfect then of course the pointy tip would be better
 
porpoise said:
A pointy tip has area out front wobbling around the axis of bullet spin while the open tip has its circumference staying around the axis and its more stable. Whatever upsetting drag the pointy tip has is going to be greater than the upsetting drag of the open tip. That’s just my theory. I can’t see any other reason, if the flight were perfect then of course the pointy tip would be better
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A "pointy" tip is better, as far as Ballistic coefficient is concerned. The "hollow-point"/open tip is just a result of the way they are manufactured. That's why some match rounds have polymer tips set in the open tip and why some reloaders (as well as some manufacturers) "tip" (ie make more pointy) OTM bullets, to increase the BC.
 
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