Why I Don't Like the KRISS Vector

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I really shouldn't promo Andrew's stuff so much. He writes for the US only, and is often pretty snarky, but his articles are so damn interesting!

From Vurrwapen Blog:

I first examined the KRISS Vector submachinegun at IWA in 2011. I did not understand why it needed to exist. I spent an evening at a Cuban cigar lounge in Nuremberg with some executives and tech guys from the company explaining my opinion to them. There was a former Swiss police officer who worked on the Sphinx pistol program (the companies are related) in attendance; he nodded as I spoke with a barely perceptible smile on his face. Essentially, I didn't see why something as large and heavy as the Vector, even in short barrel format, needed to be in a pistol caliber. And if it was to be in a pistol caliber and marketed to US law enforcement, as the vice president of the company intended to do, then it should be in .40, not .45.

It took two years for me to get high speed video of the Vector, but I see nothing which changes my mind. I am not shown firing it on video, although I did shoot it numerous times. The two shooters in this video are physically strong, experienced in the use of firearms, and doing their best to keep the weapon on target.


The operating system is supposed to reduce muzzle climb through the reciprocating components moving down at an angle instead of back towards the shooter. It's also claimed that the system will reduce recoil.

What I felt and observed is that the weapon jumps up and down in an arcing motion as the shooter fires it. If a strong shooter using good technique fires the weapon, the muzzle will stay close to being on target - but this is hardly a property unique to the Vector. The motion of the firearm is rather violent and causes the upper and lower halves of the Vector to briefly separate from one another and the variable power optic to flex. With +P ammunition, this motion was so violent as to cause the magazine to fall out of the weapon numerous times.

The cumulation of all this movement is a rather sharp shock delivered to the shooter, requiring a very brief pause before the sights or optic can be reacquired and the weapon fired again. In the end, it does not matter if the weapon comes up at an angle or makes a tiny rainbow motion - there is still a small period of time during which the shooter will be unable to put a round on target, and I am not convinced that the KRISS Vector reduces this time period by any margin.
 
and there goes his mag on the last shot i have not shot it i think its weird that it uses a pistol cartridge it looks cool as hell tho
 
The kriss is grossly overrated and underperforming. There are multiple options vastly superior. There is the ever venerable mp5 in its various guises, if you make it 45 its a direct rival to the ump. HK couldn't make a successful 45 sub with the ump, why did kriss follow that route who knows. It has an absurd cyclic rate, but so does most other subs.
 
If the MP5 was an option in Canada, I'd never give the Kriss a second look. But the fact is: we can buy a Kriss, unlike most other sub-guns.

I'd still rather get one of those TMPs from Wolverine :D
 
I love the look, and even the way they handle, but I've heard too many issues with them to seriously consider one - in the (Comercial version) SMG class, for around the same price there's the FAMAE and TMP's.
 
I shot one f/a in Ohio a few years back, it does want to climb even when firing short bursts, wicked fun though
I'm holding it in the pic
 
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Looks like another reason not to like them is apparently they are all of a sudden under review by the RCMP now?
 
To me, the KRISS always seemed over engineered, and I never really understood how it was supposed to reduce recoil in any way. I always thought it was a gimmick, but I've never fired one so my opinion isn't worth much. Perhaps if I owned a Glock 21 I could see the attractiveness of the KRISS.

I any event, every PCC/SMG type rifle I've fired has had a reasonably sharp recoil impulse when compared to the modern military rifles I've fired. The TP9 was perhaps the best of the lot, it was certainly the lightest and most compact. The MechTech was fun, but recoil was sharp with an interesting twang from the weird stock.

I'll say this and leave it alone. I'd much rather shoot a PCC in the dark, indoors than any other unsuppressed military rifle. So in that respect, I guess the KRISS may have a use.

Otherwise, meh..
 
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ztunelover said:
The kriss is grossly overrated and underperforming. There are multiple options vastly superior. There is the ever venerable mp5 in its various guises, if you make it 45 its a direct rival to the ump. HK couldn't make a successful 45 sub with the ump, why did kriss follow that route who knows. It has an absurd cyclic rate, but so does most other subs.
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Not exactly, that has more to do with LEO moving to carbine rifles as oppose to pistol caliber SMG, Hk does not make the MP5 for many reasons anymore and the UMP is a better design with more modern manufacturing techniques....The day of the sub guns time has faded away but it still has it's place.
 
They've disappeared from the FRT. A Quebec owner tried to get one reclassified to NR after having his rebarrelled, but was refused. As to the reason?!? At this point I can only assume it's because it is the next "evil assault weapon" on the RCMP's hit list. They're using technicalities and their own skewed "interpretations" of the Firearms Act to prosecute their own anti-gun agenda.
 
X-man said:
They've disappeared from the FRT. A Quebec owner tried to get one reclassified to NR after having his rebarrelled, but was refused. As to the reason?!? At this point I can only assume it's because it is the next "evil assault weapon" on the RCMP's hit list. They're using technicalities and their own skewed "interpretations" of the Firearms Act to prosecute their own anti-gun agenda.
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I literally just had the same thing happen two weeks ago. My transfer was under review for a week or two but was approved no problem and I was given a reg. certificate. I talked to the CFC and was told that the KRISS trasnfers were under review because of something to do with them being imported with 30 round magazines.
 
Leibermuster said:
Not exactly, that has more to do with LEO moving to carbine rifles as oppose to pistol caliber SMG, Hk does not make the MP5 for many reasons anymore and the UMP is a better design with more modern manufacturing techniques....The day of the sub guns time has faded away but it still has it's place.
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Exactly, in other words, subs are falling out of favour, nobody is signing up for the ump, why would anyone sign up for a sub that's inferior, and I did forget that B&T sub. Or the famae. Or the fn ps90<-(that one has its own can of worms)
 
It looks cool, ergos I'm not sure about along with recoil reduction. I've fired the civi ump in 45 and it was a soft shooter. The mmain issue I have is the length. The nonrestricted looks ridiculous and the regular only has a 5.5" barrel. So it's a big pistol. My CX4 storm looks good nonrestricted and even in restricted has a carbine barrel not a pistol barrel.

I really wanted to like the Kriss carbine but everytime I considered it I couldn't hit the buy button.
 
TV-PressPass said:
If the MP5 was an option in Canada, I'd never give the Kriss a second look. But the fact is: we can buy a Kriss, unlike most other sub-guns.

I'd still rather get one of those TMPs from Wolverine :D
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Really? Glock in a KPOS before TMP all day long. From Wolverine.


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