Years ago you wouldn't see a fox or a coyote very often at all around here, now its common to see both. There seems to be plenty around, and my deer hunting spot which used to have a very high amount of deer, has been wiped out to only a few here and there.
Why I hunt Coyotes
- Thread starter Adrian J Hare
- Start date
Years ago you wouldn't see a fox or a coyote very often at all around here, now its common to see both. There seems to be plenty around, and my deer hunting spot which used to have a very high amount of deer, has been wiped out to only a few here and there.
- Location
- West Quebec
See the odd fox but no yotes unless they have great hiding places
Adrian J Hare
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NewLowell On. Can.
You are 100% right. I do not wish them totally destroyed , only well controlled. 3 years ago we were over run by them , the deer heards dropped real bad. Fawns were taken as soon as they dropped. As I have hunted them hard for 3 years I see that they are now getting harder to come across here. I still see tracks but they seem to have more room to travel now...
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
I attended an MNR seminar last year that confirmed what I had read in many places.
Coyotes have a tremendous reproductive capacity, and in the long term, hunting, trapping and poisoning have only modest effects on populations. The primary effect of hunting is to cull less wary individuals, and to push coyotes into areas with less pressure.
I have no qualms about shooting problem animals that endanger pets and livestock. I have no interest in just seeking out random animals to kill, as I am under no illusion that I know best what animals should or should not be in an ecosystem.
Coyotes have a tremendous reproductive capacity, and in the long term, hunting, trapping and poisoning have only modest effects on populations. The primary effect of hunting is to cull less wary individuals, and to push coyotes into areas with less pressure.
I have no qualms about shooting problem animals that endanger pets and livestock. I have no interest in just seeking out random animals to kill, as I am under no illusion that I know best what animals should or should not be in an ecosystem.
True. But would you agree that in the absence of that knowledge, the most prudent approach is to look at what nature had in place before we changed it and try to re-establish that balance? I am against the "kill them all because they eat Bambies" approach. Some Bambies were intended to be eaten to balance the order, but not by Coyotes whose population can not be checked by cyclical drops in prey (deer) numbers. Coyotes have the ability to benefit from human presence which wolves do not possess. Coyotes are invasive species to your area whereas Wolves were not.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
I'll agree that coyotes are late arrivals, and have altered things. AFAIK they are not primarily predators of large game, but opportunistic hunters/scavengers.
Their numbers oscillate remarkably. Several years ago, mange wiped out a large proportion of the in southern Ontario.
I know that if I avidly hunted them, I won't have a significant long term effect on their population. They likely will learn to avoid my property, which would be my objective.
Comparisons to wolves are indeed flawed. Wolves coexisted with numerous prey species for many millennia before humans arrived on the scene. People want to kill them because they want more deer/elk to kill. That has nothing to do with natural balance in the ecosystem, though.
Have fun hunting those coyotes, guys. Just don't try to convince anyone that you're controlling their numbers, though. Research shows that it simply isn't possible.
It's OK to admit you're attempts at predator control have failed.
Please explain to me how your reply has anything to do with smokey's comment.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Read it again, and if necessary again. I'm busy watching hockey.
I did read it again and fom th excerpt you quoted I dont see the correlation. Please enlighten me.
The flaw in your argument is that you trust the MNR for accurate info..... to be hinest, we had no yotes here in my wmu (65) until the MNR decided to release turkey.... I love hunting turkey, but that being said, I have seen yotes take everything here from whitetail to lamb and they don't belong here.... And the turkey have reached pest level.... The MNR i sthe last place i would look for accurate population management info.... I wish they had more funding but they dont... little more than over anxious bush cops
- Location
- The Badlands
Its all part of the food chain , but when they start hanging near the house and chasing the family pet , then we have problems......or should I say , the yote will have the problem.....
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
It was actually an MNR biologist who studies coyote population. They also discussed the state of knowledge in coyote research.
The internet is full of assertions and anecdotes that aren't worth listening to? Carefully conducted research is interesting.
Oddly, when it comes to predators, there are a lot of myths and old wives tales out there that people are keen to believe, in preference to scientific fact. Reminds me of several subjects on CGN, come to think of it, lol!
When you start managing animals with complex social structures, the law of unintended consequences can always come into play. As hunters we've made the scientific case that hunting bears actually increases their populations so it's not impossible to believe that in some cases, hunting other predators may have the same effect. I'm all for hunting them but as hunters we also need to be aware that killing a coyote or a wolf or a cougar or a bear may not ultimately result in less of them.
canadaman30
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Far from the City
So, who are you to say a certain animal does not belong there. Are you a biologest with studies of accurate levels of species or just making personnel speculation. IMO the MNR has done their job over the years managing game populations and bringing new species like Turkey and Elk successfully to numbers that hunting has become available. We have many coyotes on our land and many deer as well, I don't see any reason to beleive every coyote should be killed because they need to eat like any other species. They certainly have not decimated or even at all noticibly declined the deer numbers arounds us. Considering how many yotes we see and hear, according to some the deer should be wiped out, but there not, there's lots. Seems like some here are looking for justification on killing an animal with extreme prejudice and tossing it off to rot.
Considering the harsh winters we are having recently and the high predator numbers we are experiencing, I'd say less is a good thing right now. Whether hunters can contribute to that decline in any meaningful way is the real question. Best case scenario is that heavy hunting pressure will at least temporarily reduce numbers at a time when ungulates could really benefit from it. Worse case scenario is that it has no effect or in some isolated populations actually causes an increase in predators. I'd say most hunters are hoping for the best case scenario and that's why they hunt them. It's why I do!
