why is full length guide rod harder to field strip
- Thread starter marlin60
- Start date
Not a big deal...you take them down and assemble them just a little different...
Some obstruct the barrel bushing when you try to turn it if they are too long. Some are made in two pieces so you can screw off the front piece so it doesn't get in the way. A pain in the ass.
I learned to leave well enough alone and use John Brownings short guide and I've never had a kinked spring.
When the gun is assembled there is very little spring that is not controlled.
I learned to leave well enough alone and use John Brownings short guide and I've never had a kinked spring.
When the gun is assembled there is very little spring that is not controlled.
I'm not a fan of the "FLGR" I can't see where it could help, and can see a number of situations where it could ruin your day. The old time 45 guys would not have an "FLGR" (Seyfreid/Chapman/Cooper) and apparently they're still not big with guys using pistols as tools.
I'm guess most guys that frequent this forum spend more time reading "Combat Handguns" (which subscription ran out in the '80s) than time on the range. You won't find any top shooters shooting without one now, and most 1911 manufacturers are delivering them as standard items. If they didn't work or caused problems, I guarantee we wouldn't use them.
Most "top shooters" also shoot comp'ed guns from skeleton holsters - whatever floats your boat. I guess I'm just not as in the know as a "top shooter" but then again I can think of someone here who just built a 45 for active duty in Iraq, and guess what it doesn't have. Out of curiosity, would you like to explain the safest one-handed slide retraction method with a guide rod gun? And thanks for condescending to share your presence with us lowly non-IPSC shooters. It is a gift to be enlightened by you.
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You won't see a built for combat gun with several items you would see in a built for IPSC gun
- Location
- Southeastern Michigan
I can't resist answering this any longer. "why is full length guide rod harder to field strip?" Simply because a full length guide rod serves no purpose and bluntly it sucks. Sorry, that is the way I see it. Regards, Richard
I can't resist answering this any longer. "why is full length guide rod harder to field strip?" Simply because a full length guide rod serves no purpose and bluntly it sucks. Sorry, that is the way I see it. Regards, Richard
...yep..that's pretty much the story I'm getting....
I've never seen any evidence that simply having one makes a pistol more accurate or more reliable, the "old timers / combat veterans / high speed guys" arguments against them are twofold: Firstly the FLGR is at least 2 extra parts, which means at least 2 extra things to go wrong - more if you count the parts that are affected by those 2 parts. Second, in the event that you end up shooting one handed (wounded, weak hand only etc.) and need to retract the slide the FLGR prevents you from jamming the bottom of the bushing against the edge of something hard and pushing.The need to do this could be anything from a dud round to any jam (if you're down to a pistol, your day is already gone to sh*t and Murphy's driving). On an IPSC range you might lose a match, maybe you can ask for a re-shoot - Hadji doesn't do re-shoots and losing a 'for real' match is permanent and your family will hate it. I view shooting as a martial art, not a game - just me.
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To remove the FLGR in my 1911 I need to use a staple....I gotta pull the slide back, stick a staple in a hole in the FLGR then let the slide go forward, then I'm able to take the side stop out...
FLGR, Spring and Reverse plug is all one piece when removed.
FLGR, Spring and Reverse plug is all one piece when removed.
I guess the 92f BERRETA, CZ75 , P-220 SIG, GLOCK, S&W M&P 9mm are not built for combat, because they all have full length guide rods, which serve no purpose. If you have one and don't like it for a particular reason, okay . But unless you have used one and found it to be a problem , your opinion is only an opinion with nothing to back it. Relying on something you heard someone say, no matter how convinced they are of their opinion, is just being suckered in on a gun myth or wives tale. If you don't want one in your gun don't put it in , it is your choice. It is strange that there are people who are so against FULL LENGTH GUIDE RODS , a $20 to $50 item that a person has to choose to add to his gun, when their complaints are, it may or does not do anything and may change the method of disassembly. An extended mag release on a 1911 can eject a mag when the gun is fired weak hand, thats not so good, an ambi safety can be bumped to the off position and now you have a cocked and not locked holstered gun, an extended slide release can be be bumped up to lock the slide back while firing or not lock the slide back because your two handed hold held it down. Not too many strong opinions on these modifications. WEIRD.
I thought we where talking about 1911's
I would guess BigRed and I are the only two members of the board using 191's in a theatre of war - neither of our guns have flg's.
In spec'ing out our guns we had a chance to get some sufficiently deep input from smith's and US .soc guys issued them.
I dont really think that puts me in the same catagory as one repeating internet rumour and innuendo.
I would guess BigRed and I are the only two members of the board using 191's in a theatre of war - neither of our guns have flg's.
In spec'ing out our guns we had a chance to get some sufficiently deep input from smith's and US .soc guys issued them.
I dont really think that puts me in the same catagory as one repeating internet rumour and innuendo.
I think it comes down to the way the Gov't model is built - unlike Sig's etc the recoil spring guide does not lock into place.
In a Sig or Glock the barrel and the slide hold the unit in place - in a 1911 its pressure from the side of the frame and spring pressure -- adding the full length guide rod adds another item which has potential to bind.
90% of the mod's done these days to a 1911 take away from the design, and if you look at any unit or agency that has had them built up - while they are typically high end guns - they dont have a lot of unneeded bling.
When I built my gun, I spoke to Ned Christiansen, Larry Vickers and several other people (some USMC PWS guys etc.) people who have built guns for combat and with Larry and some other AWG/SFOD guys have a history of using them in combat.
ALL where adamanent that using a FLGR was a bad idea - as it will reduce platform reliability. I dont claim to be a 1911 guru, however when trust my life and others to a handgun I wanted to be sure the gun works. So far the only issues I had have been FTF's from dead primers on some 1943 ammo, and briefly some issues with the 10rd Wilson mags not locking back - which is rectified by replacing the mag springs.
Larry also recently recommended that I deep six the 10rd mags as he said the overall reliability rate with them is unsatifactory.
I see adavantages to the FLGR, but none that to me make up for the detriment to the reliability.
In a Sig or Glock the barrel and the slide hold the unit in place - in a 1911 its pressure from the side of the frame and spring pressure -- adding the full length guide rod adds another item which has potential to bind.
90% of the mod's done these days to a 1911 take away from the design, and if you look at any unit or agency that has had them built up - while they are typically high end guns - they dont have a lot of unneeded bling.
When I built my gun, I spoke to Ned Christiansen, Larry Vickers and several other people (some USMC PWS guys etc.) people who have built guns for combat and with Larry and some other AWG/SFOD guys have a history of using them in combat.
ALL where adamanent that using a FLGR was a bad idea - as it will reduce platform reliability. I dont claim to be a 1911 guru, however when trust my life and others to a handgun I wanted to be sure the gun works. So far the only issues I had have been FTF's from dead primers on some 1943 ammo, and briefly some issues with the 10rd Wilson mags not locking back - which is rectified by replacing the mag springs.
Larry also recently recommended that I deep six the 10rd mags as he said the overall reliability rate with them is unsatifactory.
I see adavantages to the FLGR, but none that to me make up for the detriment to the reliability.
- Location
- Southeastern Michigan
BEARMAN, you wrote: "I guess the 92f BERRETA, CZ75 , P-220 SIG, GLOCK, S&W M&P 9mm are not built for combat, because they all have full length guide rods, which serve no purpose."
I guess I wasn't clear as I felt the question involved 1911 pistols. My response is the "92f BERRETA, CZ75 , P-220 SIG, GLOCK, S&W M&P 9mm" are not designs of John Moses Browning. With this understanding I alter my comments to:
"Simply because a full length guide rod serves no purpose on 1911s and quite bluntly on 1911 its sucks. Sorry, that is the way I see it."
Regards,
Richard
I guess I wasn't clear as I felt the question involved 1911 pistols. My response is the "92f BERRETA, CZ75 , P-220 SIG, GLOCK, S&W M&P 9mm" are not designs of John Moses Browning. With this understanding I alter my comments to:
"Simply because a full length guide rod serves no purpose on 1911s and quite bluntly on 1911 its sucks. Sorry, that is the way I see it."
Regards,
Richard
Since you carry one, tell us how it has stood up in combat. Any reliability issues when using it in battle? I value first hand experience above theories and recommendations based on what someone thinks will happen. How has yours worked?
From the tens upon tens of thousands of rounds I have fired through various 1911's, from bone stock (no FLGR) to Open guns, Para's, Colt's, Springfields (yes I have a pretty much bone stock Springfield .45) STI/SVI, and guns made from various mixes of the above in all kinds of conditions; dust, mud, rain. I have never had nor ever seen a malfunction that was caused by a full lenth guide rod. And I've seen just about every other part fail at some point.
Is it a huge advantage? No. It helps in certain circumstances, and it allows certain tuning advantages if you wish, but my Springfield has been equally reliable and accurate with and without the guiderod. So if you don't want to spend the money on one, don't, you're likely not going to have problems. If you have one, don't worry, it'll be fine.
From the tens upon tens of thousands of rounds I have fired through various 1911's, from bone stock (no FLGR) to Open guns, Para's, Colt's, Springfields (yes I have a pretty much bone stock Springfield .45) STI/SVI, and guns made from various mixes of the above in all kinds of conditions; dust, mud, rain. I have never had nor ever seen a malfunction that was caused by a full lenth guide rod. And I've seen just about every other part fail at some point.
Is it a huge advantage? No. It helps in certain circumstances, and it allows certain tuning advantages if you wish, but my Springfield has been equally reliable and accurate with and without the guiderod. So if you don't want to spend the money on one, don't, you're likely not going to have problems. If you have one, don't worry, it'll be fine.
