why is full length guide rod harder to field strip
- Thread starter marlin60
- Start date
I don't shoot my 1911 or 2011 style guns in a combat situation. I have full length guide rods in them. In 15 years of owning this type of handgun and shooting many thousands of rounds out of them I have never had a failure due to the full length guide rod.
I've never shot anyone with a pistol (yet) that said its worked fine other than the issue I mentioned about.
Four US Mil units issue a 1911 (USMC MEU, MARSOC, SFOD-D, and AWG) all four of them dont use a FLGR - and with Delta and Asm you get guys who shoot 50k+ a year thru their pistols.
Delta requires a precision pistol - so inarguably you dont "need" the FLGR. The only reason I cam chipping back with this is because of the 1980's Combat Handgunner comments.'
I have no desire here to try out a FLGR, and the two 1911's I have did not come with them - nor did the smith recommend them.
I will agree that certain items on a civilian pistol will be different that a serivce pistol. The same way I am certain that the IPSC/USPSA shooters using the guide rod have a good reason for doing so.
Four US Mil units issue a 1911 (USMC MEU, MARSOC, SFOD-D, and AWG) all four of them dont use a FLGR - and with Delta and Asm you get guys who shoot 50k+ a year thru their pistols.
Delta requires a precision pistol - so inarguably you dont "need" the FLGR. The only reason I cam chipping back with this is because of the 1980's Combat Handgunner comments.'
I have no desire here to try out a FLGR, and the two 1911's I have did not come with them - nor did the smith recommend them.
I will agree that certain items on a civilian pistol will be different that a serivce pistol. The same way I am certain that the IPSC/USPSA shooters using the guide rod have a good reason for doing so.
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
Hmm, just trained with Larry this April, brought my Kimber TLE/RLII, didn't say anything about the FLGR, mentioned that i should put a mag chute on it, and when the frickin' external extractor ####ed up, he said send the slide back to kimber for the internal one. Which i did and they promptly replaced no questions asked.
But hey, i just bought the gun as is. What is the perceived problem with FLGR's? i'm looking for real instances where the gun screwed up because it had a FLGR.
Now as to FLGR's in a military scenario, i can see where they would be useless, hard to strip, no intrinsic value over the normal spring guide, and hard to get replacement parts for. But what of just normal civilian use? Correct me if i'm wrong, but isin't the LAPD swat guys issued these type of handguns - with FLGR's?
But hey, i just bought the gun as is. What is the perceived problem with FLGR's? i'm looking for real instances where the gun screwed up because it had a FLGR.
Now as to FLGR's in a military scenario, i can see where they would be useless, hard to strip, no intrinsic value over the normal spring guide, and hard to get replacement parts for. But what of just normal civilian use? Correct me if i'm wrong, but isin't the LAPD swat guys issued these type of handguns - with FLGR's?
I have a .45 with a FLGR and one without (Valtro with and Colt Gold Cup National Match without). The Valtro is a PITA to strip because of the FLGR compared to the Colt, and other than a little more "slickness" to the action of the slide I see no advantage to it.
It has a one-piece FLGR and I don't see it creating any problem or benefit in terms of reliability.
I have personally seen a 1911 rendered inoperable when its two-piece FLGR came apart in the gun, making it not only stop running but very difficult to get apart. This was in an IPSC match.
It has a one-piece FLGR and I don't see it creating any problem or benefit in terms of reliability.
I have personally seen a 1911 rendered inoperable when its two-piece FLGR came apart in the gun, making it not only stop running but very difficult to get apart. This was in an IPSC match.
Larry has also said to me that the 1911 is now an enthusiasts pistol - not a service pistol...
Ph Racing - I agree a lot of internet myth gets perpetrated - and mil units have been notorious for it to (M16's dry in the desert and stagger your gas rings being two).
Dude in GP - my guess is LAV was not concerned about you taking your gun in harms way
I've never had a 1911 with one - so I'm probably not a good benchmark of performance.
Ph Racing - I agree a lot of internet myth gets perpetrated - and mil units have been notorious for it to (M16's dry in the desert and stagger your gas rings being two).
Dude in GP - my guess is LAV was not concerned about you taking your gun in harms way
I've never had a 1911 with one - so I'm probably not a good benchmark of performance.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Just a question, if the FLGR's are so good, WHY
have we fought four wars without them?
The purpose of the M1911 is to kill people, and it does that very well.
It was NOT designed as a target pistol.
When you turn it into a target pistol, by tightening up the slide, adding target sights and other mods, That full length guide rod is just another addition.
Having watched IPSC matches with tricked out .45's that would not last five minutes in the mud and crud of a battlefield with holsters that protect NOTHING, they should be labelled IMPRACTICAL PISTOL MATCHES. Its a game, not reality.
have we fought four wars without them?
The purpose of the M1911 is to kill people, and it does that very well.
It was NOT designed as a target pistol.
When you turn it into a target pistol, by tightening up the slide, adding target sights and other mods, That full length guide rod is just another addition.
Having watched IPSC matches with tricked out .45's that would not last five minutes in the mud and crud of a battlefield with holsters that protect NOTHING, they should be labelled IMPRACTICAL PISTOL MATCHES. Its a game, not reality.
I don't find it hard to strip with the FLGR one my 1911..... I use a rimfire conversion on this pistol and I find the FLGR does a good job of keeping the .45 slide/barrel and recoil spring all together when I'm shooting .22lr
I just pull the slide back till it lines up with the takedown mark.....pinch the slide and frame together with my left hand to hold it from moving and then remove the slide release with my right hand.
I then relax my grip and ease the slide forward and off the frame.
I just pull the slide back till it lines up with the takedown mark.....pinch the slide and frame together with my left hand to hold it from moving and then remove the slide release with my right hand.
I then relax my grip and ease the slide forward and off the frame.
Well since FLGR weren't around for those four wars, kinda easy to figure out why it wasn't used. Kinda like asking why nukes weren't dropped in the first World war. Can't use 'em if they dosn't exist, but hard to argue against the success once invented and used...thats progress.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
On that note the M1911's functioned quite well for more than 80 years without that gadget.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
Well talking about the 1911, it was the advent of shooting sports that really brought the refinement of the 1911.
So seriously, is the LAPD Swat team is out to lunch because they have FLGR's on theirs?
Kev: Yep, enthusiasts pistol is what Larry said, as he was wearing a G19 in a 6004 holster. Nope, not looking to go into harms way.
So other than a two piece guide rod falling apart, any other instances of FLGRs screwing up the system?
John: There are ####loads of stuff we didn't use for four wars. But now are common place. Weapon mounted lights for one.
So seriously, is the LAPD Swat team is out to lunch because they have FLGR's on theirs?
Kev: Yep, enthusiasts pistol is what Larry said, as he was wearing a G19 in a 6004 holster. Nope, not looking to go into harms way.
So other than a two piece guide rod falling apart, any other instances of FLGRs screwing up the system?
John: There are ####loads of stuff we didn't use for four wars. But now are common place. Weapon mounted lights for one.
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
lets think of the pros and cons....on the plus side the flgr adds to spring life, added weight forward reduces muzzle flip and it will add to repeatibility on lock up which will aid accuracy. On the negative side, it is another part to fail or come loose, is another binding point for dirt or crud to lock up the gun, and it adds a step or two too what is already an overly involved takedown process compared to modern pistols. I personally like them on a target gun, but wouldn't use one on a service gun. But then, as much as I like it, I wouldn't use a 1911 as a service gun anyways....as stated its a hundred year design and there are much better general issue pistols out there....
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
Hmm, well put Cocked.
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
So what does he use for other classes? Not trying to be an ass, just wondering what he would use for Tier 1 groups that he trains. 1911? Or the issue sidearm for that unit?
1911 for SFOD-D and AWG. When AWG was playing with the G19 then it.
Now I heard he bought a G22 and .40M&P since .40S&W is making some headway in those circles.
Both he and Ken Hackathorn have said their personal prefrence is still a 1911 - I will bug them some more that the LowLight in Nov.
Heck DevGrp is starting to run .40 P226R and 6x35 KAC PDW...
So much for commonality
Now I heard he bought a G22 and .40M&P since .40S&W is making some headway in those circles.
Both he and Ken Hackathorn have said their personal prefrence is still a 1911 - I will bug them some more that the LowLight in Nov.
Heck DevGrp is starting to run .40 P226R and 6x35 KAC PDW...
So much for commonality
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
Hmmm, everyone keeps looking for the "magical" combination. Hence i believe with the attraction to aftermarket parts. For right now, i'll enjoy shooting my TLE/RLII and take my G17 for CCW in the states.
Anyways, have a fun time at the lowlight seminar. If you get to talking about this and that, he knows me as Canuk Jr.
Anyways, have a fun time at the lowlight seminar. If you get to talking about this and that, he knows me as Canuk Jr.
- Location
- vancouverstan
i have a one piece flgr on my 1911. its a PAIN IN THE donkey to strip it because its just a milimeter too long. if it was not for that it would be just as easy as any other. mine has one purpose, to look evil and entertain,its big,its mean its heavy and its realy just for thefactor.
i have still the short guide rod i just dont use it i am not a grizzled combat vet nor a armchair ninja. but its not hard to see why someone would not want one.
with a normal guide rod there is no opening for the rode to come out when the slide goes back=one less hole for the sand to get in. my solution to that is a sprs rail, this also lest me have a flashlight reduces muzzle flip and prevents barrel fouling(also the web site suggested that its good for pistol-wipping people) http://w:eek:ww.urbanadvantage.net/attachment.htm
because of the rail i use i also use a full length guide rod. it works for me and i dont presume to tell you what does or does not. my goal is acuracy,not speed of shooting,not how fast i can strip it, just acuracy.
good day to all
factor.i have still the short guide rod i just dont use it i am not a grizzled combat vet nor a armchair ninja. but its not hard to see why someone would not want one.
with a normal guide rod there is no opening for the rode to come out when the slide goes back=one less hole for the sand to get in. my solution to that is a sprs rail, this also lest me have a flashlight reduces muzzle flip and prevents barrel fouling(also the web site suggested that its good for pistol-wipping people) http://w:eek:ww.urbanadvantage.net/attachment.htm
because of the rail i use i also use a full length guide rod. it works for me and i dont presume to tell you what does or does not. my goal is acuracy,not speed of shooting,not how fast i can strip it, just acuracy.
good day to all
