Why is my load compressed?

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laker415

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Working on some .223 remington loads and I am working with the lyman 49th manual.

I am using hornady once fired and a 75 gr A-max and IMR 4064

They list a starting charge of 22.2 up to 24.7 I believe. OAL 2.390.

I started at 22.2 and went up .4 grain incriments. When I got to 23.4 grains I am compressed and the lyman manual doesn't note a compressed load. My OAL is spot on. Am I an idiot? Thanks
 
Are you using the same brass as listed in the manual? If the brass is thicker there will be less internal volume. If the brass is thinner there will be more internal volume. Different brands of brass and even different lots from the same manufacturer can be somewhat different. If your load becomes compressed but isn't listed as a compressed load in the manual then you probably have brass with a smaller internal volume. That also means you will probably have higher pressure and velocity than the numbers published in the book. You will probably reach max pressure/max velocity with a given powder before you reach the max load in the manual.

There is nothing wrong with using thicker brass, that is why you need to do load development with a fixed set of components in a specific rifle. There are many variables that will be different with your setup than what was used in the lab when they developed the load data.

Keep as many things consistent as you can, develop your load, find whatever you are looking for (optimum accuracy or max velocity), and keep loading without changing any variables. Many shooters weight sort their brass for higher consistency. Brass should have a similar density so a heavier case will contain more brass. If the external dimensions are the same that means there must be reduced internal capacity if there is more brass. In 308 for example one brand to another could have a weight difference of 20+ grains. That means there is 20 grains more or less worth of brass inside the case.
You could also do water tests to check capacity or use some sort of consistent fine powder.
 
Yup, you're an idiot, pack 'er in and call it a day.:p

I don't recall if I've used that powder in 223 but I do know with my favorite RL-15, that dropping it into the case from 3-4 inches up will settle it a few mm lower in the case than if I just drop it directly in the funnel. Chronograph to check where you are compared to the book velocities, and go from there.:)
 
Do you have the model number on the box of bullets?
There is one model of A-Max that is designed for single loading.
I'll be home in about 1 hour where I will have access to my manuals.
 
What's your oal? The 75 Amax has a long nose and should be seated to about 2.4-2.5".

But to answer your question on why your loads are compress? Long bullets and bulky powder will do that. There's nothing wrong with compressed loads either
 
Lyman lists remington brass for their loads. Is it safe to shoot a compressed load if the previous strings show no pressure signs? I can always pull the bullets but it's crazy that I am compressed so far under their max load which still doesn't list compressed. Obviously the variation in brass volume is significant
 
Nothing wrong with compressed. 4064 is very bulky.

Suggestion: Anytime you find a load is compressed, double check your charge weight. With a balance scale it is easy to be out 5 grains. (done that).

It is also easy to miss-read or miss note the load you should be throwing. (done that)

And a scales can be in error. I have a 45 gr bullet sitting on my scales base that I weigh as a check weight before each session.
 
I am working with a 5-0-5 beam scale. I will pull a bullet when I get a moment and double check the charge. I was only working with a small batch of brass, like 20, so I was really taking my time. Scary if I am out that much on a charge
 
Remington brass is on the heavier side so odd that they used it and yet you're using Hornady and are running out of volume. Then again it's hard to say with Hornady brass since so much of it is made by subcontractors. A case for the same cartridge from two different lot numbers can be drastically different. They can even have the lettering in a different font even if it says the same thing.

As Ganderite said, double check everything. For this reason I have a balance beam scale, the digital scale on my electric powder dispenser, and a cheap jewellers scale I wouldn't trust for precision reloading but I use as a sanity check to make sure I'm in the ballpark.
 
I only have my beam scale. I will measure a few different bullet weights then pull a bullet and measure that charge. I will be adding a charge master combo shortly.


As far as consistent seating depth, it almost seems necessary to use the bullet comparator from hornady to get the ogive instead of measuring to the tip. Is this accurate?
 
As I suspected the 75 gr A-Max is a bullet that has a C.O.A.L of 2.390"
It seems like you are aware of that.
It cannot be loaded to magazine length according to the Hornady 8th edition manual page 167
It was designed for 600+ yards service rifle.
 
I weighed some 168, 75, and 300gr bullets and they were all within a few tenths of a grain. When I pulled one of the compressed loads, it weighed in a bit lighter than my original goal. Looks like I need another scale on hand to double check. Chargemaster is on order.
 
snooker said:
Consider using a drop tube for bulky powders like imr4064. It will make a difference.
Click to expand...

This is good advice.

Personally I don't like compressed loads. IMHO if you are compressing the powder you are using the wrong powder. Not that there is anything wrong with your powder, especially if it is what you have on hand. It will work well and quite likely be very accurate.

My powder preferences for the 223rem are ball powders over magnum primers for all weights.

I get a bit picky and anal about compressing powder and have never had any problems with it other than bullets pushing out of the necks over time. Even that likely was my fault for using an expander ball that was on the large side. I was handloading for a single shot Ruger and had issues with bullets pushing out of the necks. That sort of soured me on compressed loads.

Listen to the guys here giving you some very experienced advice. They know their stuff. Not only that but not everyone needs to have 10-20 different powders on hand at any given time and you learn to get by with what you have. Isn't that right Ganderite???
 
One issue with compressed loads would be if you have Redding Competition Series seating dies - Redding warns against using compressed loads in those dies due to potential damage (splitting) to the seater stem when compressing powder.

Of course, one only finds that out in the fine print after paying well over $200.xx for the 3 die set... DOH!

Forster doesn't seem to have any compression issues with their competition seating dies - a more robust stem, I guess...?
 
bearhunter said:
This is good advice.

Personally I don't like compressed loads. IMHO if you are compressing the powder you are using the wrong powder. Not that there is anything wrong with your powder, especially if it is what you have on hand. It will work well and quite likely be very accurate.

My powder preferences for the 223rem are ball powders over magnum primers for all weights.

I get a bit picky and anal about compressing powder and have never had any problems with it other than bullets pushing out of the necks over time. Even that likely was my fault for using an expander ball that was on the large side. I was handloading for a single shot Ruger and had issues with bullets pushing out of the necks. That sort of soured me on compressed loads.

Listen to the guys here giving you some very experienced advice. They know their stuff. Not only that but not everyone needs to have 10-20 different powders on hand at any given time and you learn to get by with what you have. Isn't that right Ganderite???
Click to expand...

I probably have 20 different powders. Some of them are still in the can I bought 30 years ago.

I tend to use just a few powders. Not necessarily the best powders for the job, but the ones I have a lot of and want to use it up and not have to do more load development work.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I am picking up a drop tube to have on hand. I may pull them and try the drop tube. I may just shoot my strings and watch for pressure too. Thanks again for the tips. Lots of information on reloading, the learning never ends
 
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