Why is spine shot so effective?

[RRH.01]

But where is the proof that what is causing such dramatic deaths is a loss of motor function to the diaphragm?

Besides, wouldn't that cause the deer to suffocate, something that takes minutes to actually kill them, not almost instantly kill it like the OP is suggesting?

Knowledge of anatomy allows you to make some reasonable assumptions, but it does not provide enough information to make a definitive call on whats causing the lightning fast kills the OP talks about.

I think it does, your paralyzingly it aswell as shutting down it’s respiratory system etc. How many are actually dead and not just fully paralyzed at the drop? You’d need to measure brain function no? If it loses motor functions like that you won’t see it breathing, it may look still or dead but It’s still suffocating it’s just fully paralyzed. In most cases you aren’t going to get to the animal within a few minutes or more anyway. I think the further up the shot it causes paralysis as well as shutting down the other systems where the hit further back just causes limb paralysis.

 

[tokguy]

Could also be the 'ok we will push the bush and you blast whatever comes running out' kind of guys.

We don't dogpile deer in AB. No camps, hounds or driving them. Just...don't

 

[jjohnwm]

Debate over which of the cervical vertebrae...3, 4 or 5...is the correct aiming point...begins...now!

There was an article in one of the gun/hunting rags years ago in which the author was postulating that the shot be timed so as to strike the animal after it exhales, the idea being that empty lungs would contribute to a quicker demise as opposed to lungs that had just been filled by an inhalation. I wish I could remember that writer's name; that's the kind of expertise that CGN thrives on.

 

[RRH.01]

We don't dogpile deer in AB. No camps, hounds or driving them. Just...don't

what you mean you like to immerse yourself in nature, find rubs and scapes, quietly slip through the bush unnoticed and outsmart your quarry on your own. Pfffff.

 

[RRH.01]

Debate over which of the cervical vertebrae...3, 4 or 5...is the correct aiming point...begins...now!

There was an article in one of the gun/hunting rags years ago in which the author was postulating that the shot be timed so as to strike the animal after it exhales, the idea being that empty lungs would contribute to a quicker demise as opposed to lungs that had just been filled by an inhalation. I wish I could remember that writer's name; that's the kind of expertise that CGN thrives on.

No, the empty lungs will be under a small vacuum and the bullet hole will cause a massive rush of air giving him one last giant breath! Hit him on full lungs and they pop like balloons! It’s very scientifical

 

[jjohnwm]

No, the empty lungs will be under a small vacuum and the bullet hole will cause a massive rush of air giving him one last giant breath! Hit him on full lungs and they pop like balloons! It’s very scientifical

See, you're not even considering the important factor of lung alignment; if the animal is standing on a north/south axis, the Coriolis Effect will produce an entirely different terminal result than an east/west orientation. These calculations are important, as is the significance of shooting in the northern vs southern hemisphere, the strength of the solar wind, and especially the crystalization of the atomic structure of the metal in the projectile if you are using lead-free bullets.

You can't just throw a bit of scientific blather into the conversation and expect to walk away without fully examining the factors that are brought into play.

 

[FLHTCUI]

See, you're not even considering the important factor of lung alignment; if the animal is standing on a north/south axis, the Coriolis Effect will produce an entirely different terminal result than an east/west orientation. These calculations are important, as is the significance of shooting in the northern vs southern hemisphere, the strength of the solar wind, and especially the crystalization of the atomic structure of the metal in the projectile if you are using lead-free bullets.

You can't just throw a bit of scientific blather into the conversation and expect to walk away without fully examining the factors that are brought into play.

But, what about if the rifling is of a left hand twist and the boolits are cast for a right hand twist ??
We have yet to examine the effect of the north/south axis, the Coriolis Effect or if we are shooting into space....
Happy Canada Day All..even to those on my ignore list ... you know who you all are

Rob

 

[tokguy]

what you mean you like to immerse yourself in nature, find rubs and scapes, quietly slip through the bush unnoticed and outsmart your quarry on your own. Pfffff.

I use the truck hunt Lots as a kid... I ain't one of them fellows that's going to shake his finger at you when he's done the same thing as a youth. Sort of outgrown that... Usually take a 38- 55 and a knife on my belt and just kind of wander North onto the creek brush... Take your pee ffffff and blow it out your ass

 

[FLHTCUI]

I use the truck hunt Lots as a kid... I ain't one of them fellows that's going to shake his finger at you when he's done the same thing as a youth. Sort of outgrown that... Usually take a 38- 55 and a knife on my belt and just kind of wander North onto the creek brush... Take your pee ffffff and blow it out your ass

tokguy, some people just do not get it.....
No matter how you put it to them.
I dig what your sayin cause as you know it isnt All about killing and cutting a tag.
Rob

 

[RRH.01]

I use the truck hunt Lots as a kid... I ain't one of them fellows that's going to shake his finger at you when he's done the same thing as a youth. Sort of outgrown that... Usually take a 38- 55 and a knife on my belt and just kind of wander North onto the creek brush... Take your pee ffffff and blow it out your ass

Haha I wasn’t judgin, was a light hearted jab at deer drives. I find it takes away everything I like about the outdoors. The quiet, the other animals, the satisfaction of hunting down my quarry. Even if I’m not successful it’s a good day in the bush just taking it all in, tromping through the bush with a bunch of guys trying to flush deer or sitting on the other end is not my idea outsmarting an animal on its own terms. I hunt as you do, I find it’s much more satisfying and memorable when I am successful in that way. My first three deer here taken pushing bush, looking back I find no satisfaction in it. Yeah that’s where pfffs usually come out of.

 

[CoonT]

I've had it go both ways. Slug through the spine is great in the neck, but not a good shot if it's shoulders or lower. I've spine shot deer in the back before that were sitting there looking at me when I approached them afterwards.

I'd aim for the spine/neck (white patch) when a deer is facing me, but wouldn't do it at any other angle.

 

[RRH.01]

tokguy, some people just do not get it.....
No matter how you put it to them.
I dig what your sayin cause as you know it isnt All about killing and cutting a tag.
Rob

Exactly my point, didn’t you read post 64, It was sarcastic if missed it, it’s what I do. Deer drives to me are all about killing and cutting tags, still hunting, exploring nature, learning the lay of the land and quarry’s routines is where it’s at to me. I get the camp angle, what’s better than time in the hush with friends, but to me that’s camping, the hunting starts when you leave camp and there are more immersive ways I’d choose to hunt as they are much more sastifying.

 

[RRH.01]

See, you're not even considering the important factor of lung alignment; if the animal is standing on a north/south axis, the Coriolis Effect will produce an entirely different terminal result than an east/west orientation. These calculations are important, as is the significance of shooting in the northern vs southern hemisphere, the strength of the solar wind, and especially the crystalization of the atomic structure of the metal in the projectile if you are using lead-free bullets.

You can't just throw a bit of scientific blather into the conversation and expect to walk away without fully examining the factors that are brought into play.

And that’s why I go for spine shots.

 

[cantgetright]

One of my first deer taken when I was young was very similar , a misjudge due to inexperience resulted in a spine shot directly above the lungs, bet not many know what kind of sounds a doe in distress can make but I heard it that day.

Wasn't the last I had to deal with in life either , no fault of my own, but saw others.

Actually, just as I type this I do remember a specific doe shot with a facing head on shot that was hit in what I thought was a DRT , not the case, neck was broke halfway down, left our rifles behind as didn't want to carry it back with said animal, thankfully had my knife with me, animal was fully alive when I got to it.

Sounds like my experience 2 years ago. Never heard a deer scream before. Felt sick when I heard that. She dropped in long grass so I couldn't see her. Dead when I got there but took some time to get to her as I'm laid up on crutches and had to call for back up with atv to cross a creek to where she was.

 

[tokguy]

Exactly my point, didn’t you read post 64, It was sarcastic if missed it, it’s what I do. Deer drives to me are all about killing and cutting tags, still hunting, exploring nature, learning the lay of the land and quarry’s routines is where it’s at to me. I get the camp angle, what’s better than time in the hush with friends, but to me that’s camping, the hunting starts when you leave camp and there are more immersive ways I’d choose to hunt as they are much more sastifying.

If someone asked me to participate in a deer drive, I'd politely decline. The same as hounds... nope.
I've been in trucks cutting across the open top to get ahead of a running deer in a coulee (as a dumbass kid)... why anyone would want to eat a hot, adrenaline'd up animal is beyond me. And horn's are always secondary to a decent shot...horns make thin soup. Might see that 'Boone & Crockett' buck this year and get 'Buck Fever'...more likely another 'Spoon & Crockpot' buck...fine in my world so far.
And the purported drinking in deer camp is enough to keep me away. Sharing venison with someone not family just seems...weird?
Typically I use guns with decent irons, so unless I have to fix some Nimrod's f**k up...I keep my shots around that 200 yard mark (works great in my locale...house near a creek...lotsa brush). That needs the Old School 'Boiler Room' shot...one doesn't worry about raising or lowering POI 8" with irons at 200, don't want to shoot an animal poorly. Shoot them pretty much square in the centre of the front quarter with a appropriately powerful rifle has worked OK for me.
This likely re-hashes the 'Glass is more humane, because it increases your capabilities' argument. Which is correct IMO, til you decide to take edgier shoots... then the 'halo' has to back in it's place on the shelf.
I keep my 'halo' right beside the computer just for wearing when I'm on Forums LOL.
If I had a virtual Halo...it'd be a tad tarnished, with a ding or two...maybe a pawnshop sticker too.
Stay safe, know your limitations...have a good hunt.
Ciao Tokguy

 

[scruffee]

I've shot several animals in the spine, some died as quick as a heart shot, some needed a second shot. Either way, all were not the intended shot, but it happens.

I personally always go for the boiler room, it's the largest target with the most room for error. Aiming for the head or spine leaves too much room for mistakes.

 

[Buck_Up]

Keep in mind there is also a pocket of space above the vitals and below the spine, I've heard of guys hitting that pocket of space and losing an animal because it doesn't die yet runs off

Yup... the dreaded Black Hole shot... between the ribs, over the lungs, under the spine and out the other side.

 

[bearhunter]

And that’s why I go for spine shots.

So you're trying to tell us that you can guarantee less than one minute of angle, aimed points of impact, under field conditions at varying ranges?????

How many have you wounded and just didn't see it???

 

[bearhunter]

Quote Originally Posted by Suther View Post
But where is the proof that what is causing such dramatic deaths is a loss of motor function to the diaphragm?

Suther, when the diaphragm is penetrated, all sorts of things cease to function properly, including the heart, which causes the brain to shut down along with other functions. It isn't an instant kill but it's often a drop within a few steps shot. The animal usually is dead before you get to it.

Many archery hunters swear by it, some serious knife fighters take it at every opportunity.

Townsend Whelan swore by a shot through the diaphragm as being a quick and clean kill shot.

 

[remyltr]

No diss intended but I've had to dispatch to many animals that ran away after having part of their heads shot off or a bullet that passed through the neck, without hitting an artery or the spine and the shooter thinks it was a clean miss, so left the area.

Those poor buggers take several days to die, while in agony.

You are most likely a very decent shot, but to recommend head and neck sots????????????????????????????

no diss taken

i havent recommended anything to be fair
and i have done my fair share of hunting deer down(of other hunters) were the poor bugger was gut shot instead of the boiler room
i will most certainly keep taking head/neck shots,to me they are the most effective way of dispatching
an animal