Why No High BC Hunting Bullets?

mmattockx

mmattockx

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Why is it that very high BC's are strictly the province of target bullets? Is it not possible for one of the makers to turn out an actual hunting bullet in the same shape as a Berger VLD? Several makers use plastic tips now, so forming the small meplat should be no issue with a hunting weight jacket, is there something else that is holding them back?

Thanks,
Mark
 
Depends on what you mean by "high BC", I guess. Quite a few of the 180 .308 plastic-tipped things get your BC north of 0.5, and I'm sure there are plenty of other good examples.
 
brotherjack said:
Depends on what you mean by "high BC", I guess. Quite a few of the 180 .308 plastic-tipped things get your BC north of 0.5, and I'm sure there are plenty of other good examples.
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Some of the heavy for calibre VLD's are well up into the .600's and the 300gr. 338 bullets are way higher than that (high .700's and better, but only based on form factor, not tested performance). I am taking information from Brian Litz's book and almost none of the true hunting bullets are better than the high .400's in his testing, regardless of what the manufacturer's will claim.


BigUglyMan said:
Berger makes VLDs specifically for big game hunting with the same profile and BC as their target bullets.

And now to it back and watch...:popCorn:
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I know they do. And I have seen many people comment that they are still pretty lightly built and tend toward the explosive expansion end of the scale rather than the deep penetration end. I would like a tougher bullet for bigger game like moose and elk. For medium game like deer I am sure the Berger's are fine. I may get some 140gr. 6.5mm Berger's to try out on Bambi this fall, depending on how my rifle likes the SST's and Game King's I have ready to test.

Mark
 
I don't know the specs but the new Fusion branded hunting ammo from Federal in .308 may have higher BC. Also it's not your traditional bullet construction. On a side note if your rifle shoots Federal Gold well, then it will love this stuff as well. The difference in POI out of my 5R was 1 click. 165 stuff was grouping 3/4 moa 5 rounds. I've heard the 180 stuff shoots like match ammo (haven't tried it yet).

Might be worth looking into.
 
A bullet that offers match grade accuracy, expands but stays together at all ranges, and works in all sorts of animals all of the time?
That bullet doesn't exist...At least I haven't found it.

I think you could use a Berger 20 times and not have an issue, but the 21st may be a disaster. Take a 300Ultra and smash a 210 into a bison shoulder at point blank and I promise you bad things are going to happen.
If Berger bonded their hunting bullets our issues would be over....Don't hold your breath.

The Nosler Accubond has been the best all around bet for me. The 30cal 200gr has been superb in both accuracy and impact performance in a few rifles. If you want to go more than 600 yards the bullet starts showing its hunting design. At this point you need something like a Berger to get the job done.

I have had great luck with the 300gr 338 SMK and a good buddy that likes the 208Amax, but short range magnum bullets they are not.

Just a word of caution.
Some of the Game Kings are very hard bullets...Long range expansion may be iffy.....I suggest you test this before you try them on game.
The 338 250gr produced some pinholes on a moose of mine (2100 fps impact velocity).

As soon as they are shipped I have some 338 265 TTSX to test.....Will let you know.
 
X-fan said:
A bullet that offers match grade accuracy, expands but stays together at all ranges, and works in all sorts of animals all of the time?
That bullet doesn't exist...At least I haven't found it.

I think you could use a Berger 20 times and not have an issue, but the 21st may be a disaster. Take a 300Ultra and smash a 210 into a bison shoulder at point blank and I promise you bad things are going to happen.
If Berger bonded their hunting bullets our issues would be over....Don't hold your breath.

The Nosler Accubond has been the best all around bet for me. The 30cal 200gr has been superb in both accuracy and impact performance in a few rifles. If you want to go more than 600 yards the bullet starts showing its hunting design. At this point you need something like a Berger to get the job done.

I have had great luck with the 300gr 338 SMK and a good buddy that likes the 208Amax, but short range magnum bullets they are not.

Just a word of caution.
Some of the Game Kings are very hard bullets...Long range expansion may be iffy.....I suggest you test this before you try them on game.
The 338 250gr produced some pinholes on a moose of mine (2100 fps impact velocity).

As soon as they are shipped I have some 338 265 TTSX to test.....Will let you know.
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I agree Nosler AB is great...

I haven't tried Barnes very much but the TTSX has better B.C than A.B so it is definitely on my list to try.
 
X-fan said:
I have had great luck with the 300gr 338 SMK and a good buddy that likes the 208Amax, but short range magnum bullets they are not.
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How did the 300gr. 338 SMK perform in an animal? I have seen that said a couple of places and I plan on buying a .338WM for my next moose/elk rifle. I will definitely be trying out some 300gr. SMK's in it. Velocity is not too high with that heavy bullet, which should keep bullet explosions to a minimum, even at close ranges.

I guess what I would like is a bullet like a Hornady Interbond or a tougher version of the SST to be shaped like a Berger VLD. Is that too much to ask?

Mark
 
Accubonds, E-Tip, TTSX or MRX, Hornady and Swift just came out with new ones aswell,, any reason why you are looking for a 300 gr bullet??
 
Most hunting is done inside 250yds so bullet makers cater to those needs - the big one being not overexpanding at anticipated impact velocities. Any gains in aerodymanic qualities by making long pointy bullets may be offset by less then ideal on/in game performance????

For those that enjoy long range hunting, their bullet needs are quite a bit different and companies like Berger offer very useable products. As does Hornady and Sierra.

At extended distances, impact velocity is much lower so a thinner jacket is a good thing. However, take that same bullet and hit a shoulder at 3000fps, you will not like the results.

The orig ballistic tip was highly criticised for the exact same characteristics Berger Hunting bullets are lauded for today. The new gen HUNTING ballistic tip has been reinforced internally to act more like controlled expansion bullet. Kind of bizarre.

Jerry
 
Dogleg said:
I sectioned the 190 grain Berger "Hunting bullet", and found it to be exactly the same as the "target" bullet.
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I remember hearing somewhere that their hunting bullets had a lighter jacket than the target variety. I've heard a lot about them being used on heavier big game (I believe that Blackcloud is a big Berger devotee) so I wouldn't have an issue giving them a try myself. I know that the guys ar Barnes get real heated up when people talk about using Bergers for hunting so I wonder if they're not feeling a bit threatened.

Everyone has to remember that you don't necessarily need a bullet to retain 100% of it's weight to be effective on big game, especially ones that are relatively lightly constructed (ie not buffalo or heavy plains game). In fact, you may not even want the bullet to hodl together like a TSX...tissue disruption kills, not knitting-needle holes from bow to stern.
 
Shot as bear one time with a 300 gr SMK. The bear was all wobbly like Jello with a volleyball sized exit crater. I think I was a bit too close.
 
BigUglyMan,
The reason I sectioned those bullets is because I and a friend had bad experiences with the Bergers. I was hoping that the orange box would be the cure, but saw nothing inside to make me think they were anything less than identical.
I'm not in the weight retention at all costs camp, since observation has proven to my satisfaction that somewhat softer and faster bullets stubbornly persist in killing animals faster than the hardest of bullets like the TSX. On the otherhand, a wound a foot wide and an inch deep isn't much good either and we got a few of those. Luckily, there are about a million bullets between the two extremes. The 300 grain SMK comes in the Edge comes to mind.:evil:
 
noneck180 said:
Accubonds, E-Tip, TTSX or MRX, Hornady and Swift just came out with new ones aswell,, any reason why you are looking for a 300 gr bullet??
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For the high BC, high sectional density and big hit without destroying a bunch of meat. Heavy for calibre bullets always seem to be very effective without blowing huge exit holes in the animal. I am sure that a 250gr. bullet will work fine, but in general, performance just gets better with more weight. Hurts more to shoot, too.:D

Mark
 
mmattockx said:
Why is it that very high BC's are strictly the province of target bullets? Is it not possible for one of the makers to turn out an actual hunting bullet in the same shape as a Berger VLD? Several makers use plastic tips now, so forming the small meplat should be no issue with a hunting weight jacket, is there something else that is holding them back?

Thanks,
Mark
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There is more to a good hunting bullet than just a high B.C. The difference in trajectory in the vast majority of hunting is insignificant.
 
mysticplayer said:
Most hunting is done inside 250yds so bullet makers cater to those needs - the big one being not overexpanding at anticipated impact velocities. Any gains in aerodymanic qualities by making long pointy bullets may be offset by less then ideal on/in game performance????
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This is true. Both deer I shot last fall were inside 100yds and that was in eastern Alberta, with large patches of open ground between the clumps of bush. I can't imagine getting a shot at a moose at much over 150yds, but elk are another story. Depending on where you are hunting, you might be shooting across a valley with no cover to allow a closer shot.


BigUglyMan said:
Everyone has to remember that you don't necessarily need a bullet to retain 100% of it's weight to be effective on big game, especially ones that are relatively lightly constructed (ie not buffalo or heavy plains game).
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I am not in the 100% weight retention camp, but my concern with big animals like moose and elk is getting a quartering shot where you end up having to bust through some bone before reaching vital organs. On a close broadside shot my 6.5x55 is more than adequate for both, but we all know that the world doesn't always work the way you want it to. I don't want to have to wait for the perfect shot just to be sure the animal goes down cleanly, I want a margin to work with to be safe.

Toomanyguns said:
Shot as bear one time with a 300 gr SMK. The bear was all wobbly like Jello with a volleyball sized exit crater. I think I was a bit too close.
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:D That might have been it.

That is one of the reasons I like the heavier bullets, they keep the velocities lower to avoid massive damage up close, but carry so well that the longer shots still leave you with lots of energy to get the job done properly. I guess I will just have to see how they work when I get to that point.

Mark
 
Hard not to agree with Dennis on this. Unless hunting beyond 5 to 600 yards, the BC of the bullet will matter very little. I do say 500 yards, because it is at this distance that most scopes run out of holdover style reticules, and turret twisting starts. The Nolser AB does very well BC wise, and is a pure hunting bullet. Nosler claims a minimum working velocity of either 1800fps or 2000fps. Punch that in to what you are shooting at, distance wise, and on most rifles, it will be way beyond 5 or 600 yards.

R.
 
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