Why no Jr Carabine in .223???

[Blastattack]

Recoil-operated is not blow back, it is delayed blow back. And the AM-99 you linked is a gas operated semi auto.

Recoil operated is not delayed blowback. Short recoil sends the barrel and bolt assembly back a short ways, imparting momentum to the bolt carrier and allowing for the system to unlock and cycle. Browning machine guns employ this extensively. Long recoil involves the barrel and bolt assembly travelling all the way to the rear of the cyclic distance. Once the barrel and bolt assembly stop, the bolt is caught by a retaining device and the barrel is allowed to return to it's resting position and ejects the spent cartridge as it moves forward. Once the barrel fully returns, it deactivates the bolt retaining device and allows the bolt to move into battery, stripping and chambering a new cartridge from the magazine as well as finishing the cocking process. During both processes the firearm is in full lockup until the gas pressure has subsided.

 

[Canadian_Zuk]

I stand corrected. Thank you.

 

[digitalblue]

http://www.orions-hammer.com/blowback/

A straight blowback 223 would require a whopping 7lb bolt to function safely; the bolt alone would weigh more than the entire rifle.

 

[nowarningshot]

Isnt there a AR style Norinco 223. The other obvious gun...for about $200 more would be the Mini 14. Its a couple hunned more than either the JR or the Su-16, but a much better gun.

 

[Power Pill]

Blowback can not handle .223 pressures. 10mm is about the max for a carbine in Blowback

You might want to read up on the HK G3 platform and it's derivatives. Blowback 308 and 223 rifles.

 

[digitalblue]

You might want to read up on the HK G3 platform and it's derivatives. Blowback 308 and 223 rifles.

G3 = Roller Delayed blowback
JR carbine = Straight blowback

 

[Katana]

Blowback can not handle .223 pressures. 10mm is about the max for a carbine in Blowback

Now that I would by, a JR in 10mm.

 

[juanvaldez]

I'd buy one in .338 lapua. Do they have 10 shot 338 lapua pistol mags?

 

[Wrong Way]

The JR may not be designed to handle the pressure, but, others have been designed to handle the pressure easily. Ruger did a 44mag.

No they didn't.

 

[Turkinator]

Get a Keltec SU-16 and dress it up. takes LAR mags, can look almost AR-ish, can be found for $6-700 used on the EE. Folds in half for storage.

You can do this... Or beat your head against a wall while letting fistfuls of cash blow away in the wind to simulate the pain, frustration and expense of buying such a poorly designed firearm.

 

[Power Pill]

44mag is a straight walled pistol cartridge, not a shouldered rifle cartridge. The difference between 36,000 PSI(44mag) and 62,000 PSI(223) is quite substantial.

The Ruger Deerfield carbine isn't blow back either.

"The Deerfield Carbine is based on the rotating-bolt short-stroke gas-piston Mini-14 action,"

 

[Easy 9mm]

No they didn't.

Have a look at the Ruger model 44 that was discontinued in the 80's. (Not the Deerfield carbine that came later.) It's quite the interesting rifle that looks like a scaled up 10/22. From what I could find, they were discontinued due to manufacturing costs.

 

[digitalblue]

Have a look at the Ruger model 44 that was discontinued in the 80's. (Not the Deerfield carbine that came later.) It's quite the interesting rifle that looks like a scaled up 10/22. From what I could find, they were discontinued due to manufacturing costs.

I believe the Ruger 44 carbine is gas operated

 

[Easy 9mm]

I believe the Ruger 44 carbine is gas operated

The newer Deerfield carbine is gas operated with a removable magazine. But the older model 44 is a blowback design with a tube magazine.

Edit: Nope, I'm wrong. Even the older model was gas operated with a rotating bolt.

 

[Canadian_Zuk]

The Ruger Deerfield carbine isn't blow back either.

"The Deerfield Carbine is based on the rotating-bolt short-stroke gas-piston Mini-14 action,"

Thanks, the post you quoted me on I was talking about the difference in pressure between a straight walled pistol cartridge and bottle neck rifle cartridge not the design of the action. But regardless, the Ruger Deerstalker in 44 magnum is most definitely a straight blow back firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Model_44

Ruger Deerstalker44.JPG
Ruger Model 44 with scope
Type Semi-automatic rifle
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designer William B. Ruger
Designed 1961
Manufacturer Sturm, Ruger
Produced 1961–1985
Variants RS, International, Sporter, 25th Anniversary
Specifications
Weight 6 lb (2.7 kg)
Length 37 in (940 mm)
Barrel length 18.5 in (470 mm)
Cartridge .44 Remington Magnum
Action Blowback
Feed system 4-round tubular magazine
Sights Gold bead

 

[tiriaq]

The newer Deerfield carbine is gas operated with a removable magazine. But the older model 44 is a blowback design with a tube magazine.

No, it is not. It is gas operated with a rotating bolt.

 

[Easy 9mm]

No, it is not. It is gas operated with a rotating bolt.

I stand corrected. After watching a disassembly video, even the old ones were gas operated with a rotating bolt as well. I'll edit my earlier post.

 

[Wrong Way]

Thanks, the post you quoted me on I was talking about the difference in pressure between a straight walled pistol cartridge and bottle neck rifle cartridge not the design of the action. But regardless, the Ruger Deerstalker in 44 magnum is most definitely a straight blow back firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Model_44

Ruger Deerstalker44.JPG
Ruger Model 44 with scope
Type Semi-automatic rifle
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designer William B. Ruger
Designed 1961
Manufacturer Sturm, Ruger
Produced 1961–1985
Variants RS, International, Sporter, 25th Anniversary
Specifications
Weight 6 lb (2.7 kg)
Length 37 in (940 mm)
Barrel length 18.5 in (470 mm)
Cartridge .44 Remington Magnum
Action Blowback
Feed system 4-round tubular magazine
Sights Gold bead

The info you quoted is wrong.

ALL the Ruger 44's were short stroke piston gas operated...from the deerstalker to the 44 carbine to the 99/44 Deerfield. I've had at least 10 and worked on many more....not blowback.

 

[Canadian_Zuk]

The info you quoted is wrong.

ALL the Ruger 44's were short stroke piston gas operated...from the deerstalker to the 44 carbine to the 99/44 Deerfield. I've had at least 10 and worked on many more....not blowback.

Thanks! I've been corrected twice this week when I was sure I was right. I've never owned one, but have always been intrigued buy the 44Mag carbines. I always thought the ruger 10/22 was a scaled down Ruger 44 in every way. It looks like the internet isn't always right lol

 

[pmatuk]

the 1907 351 wsl is a blow back that runs at max of 52,939 psi even though antique and heavy