ok, I am just wondering why the Germans never used 7mm mauser? I mean, it has less recoil, very good accuracy, and would have been better suited for semi automatic weapons because of its lower recoil. Why did the mexicans, southafrican republics, chileans etc. etc. prefer it?
why not 7mm?
- Thread starter f_soldaten04
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- Ontario, Kanada
The 8mm is more powerful, enough said...
Actually it isn't. 7mm comes out of the muzzle faster and with more energy and maintains it much better and has a much flatter trajectory. 7mm also outdoes 6.5 within 300 yards for that matter, but 6.5 is close and has a little more long distance accuracy. 8mm is lost after 300 yards.muh-muh-muh-mauser said:
- Location
- Ontario, Kanada
Monty said:Actually it isn't. 7mm comes out of the muzzle faster and with more energy and maintains it much better and has a much flatter trajectory. 7mm also outdoes 6.5 within 300 yards for that matter, but 6.5 is close and has a little more long distance accuracy. 8mm is lost after 300 yards.
The 8mm dillivers more energy onto the target (thusly leading to better penetration) out to a farther range than the 7mm does, therefore making it better for military applications...
Monty, Muh-Muh-Muh-Mauser is right. More weight, more frontal area. The difference in bullet drop between 7mm and 8mm (at 300m) is inconsequencial. With practice, you hit what you aim at.
The 7mm vs 8mm argument is a variation of the 9mm Luger - 45 ACP pistol debate.
The 7mm vs 8mm argument is a variation of the 9mm Luger - 45 ACP pistol debate.
I think its a matter of economics and politics. There was probably a developer (Walther?, Gerwer?)who lobbied to get the contract to produce arms. After he had the contract and tooled all his manufacturing and ammo production facilities to 8mm, it made economic sense to use them. New equipment could be added to produce new products(7mm), but why not keep the old production lines churning away.
- Location
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7 & 8mm
For machine gun use the 8mm having heavier bullets makes sense. I would imagine that the 196 grain bullets would penetrate lightly armored vehicles better. As for hunting I use both, tomorrow is 8mm day, then 303 day, then 338 day and so on.
For machine gun use the 8mm having heavier bullets makes sense. I would imagine that the 196 grain bullets would penetrate lightly armored vehicles better.
As for hunting I use both, tomorrow is 8mm day, then 303 day, then 338 day and so on. Yes, the 8mm is a heavier bullet but it actually packs less punch than a 7 over 100 yards. At close range I guess it wins, but at close range, if you're hunting humans, you don't need that big a cannon. And, at distance, the difference in drop is huge, nevermind a windy day. 7mm outperforms 8mm bigtime. Check the most popular hunting cartridges and you'll notice 7mm is very popular on things bigger and tougher than humans.chowderhead said:
The generals seem to like the bigger the better. When the Garand was being devoped ,1930s,they suggested a 276???,the noted ballistic expert McArthur ,nixed that.The British thought highly of the caliber that they tried twice,once in 1912 and again in the early fifties before the 7.62Nato.I could be wrong but I think the 8x57 came out in 1888,whereas the 7x57 in 1893 as a low velocity 2400f/s 175gr RN .
At the time they developed the 8mm and other countries started using the various 30 calibers, the armies were used to having big bullets, 57 snider, 577-450, 45-70 , 11mm (43) Mauser, 11mm spanish , and other assorted 43 to 45 calibers. I don't think the high ranking officers could take the big plunge down below 30 caliber in one step. Although there was a lot of work going on with experimental .27 and .28 calibers when the first world war started, I think that most militaries just went with what they had/knew and
carried on from there.
Kim
carried on from there.
Kim
that's a good question, and I really don't know much about the german military
stuff. Maybe it was the same as the experimental 276 enfield that the British were working on in 1912, it just wasn't feasible to retool everything when a war was imminent. The 7x57 was developed in the early 1890's though
so i don't know if the war reasoning stands. Cartridges of the World says the 7mm's use at San Juan hill against the Americans was one of the reasons the Americans developed the 1903 springfield. So maybe it was just that the persons in power in the German army didn't like change? The 8x57 is a pretty
good round in it's own right
Kim
stuff. Maybe it was the same as the experimental 276 enfield that the British were working on in 1912, it just wasn't feasible to retool everything when a war was imminent. The 7x57 was developed in the early 1890's though
so i don't know if the war reasoning stands. Cartridges of the World says the 7mm's use at San Juan hill against the Americans was one of the reasons the Americans developed the 1903 springfield. So maybe it was just that the persons in power in the German army didn't like change? The 8x57 is a pretty
good round in it's own right
Kim
for all intents and purposes, does the 7mm do anything the 8mm doesn't? don't forget that the 8mm is the original design and the 7mm is a modification. the 8mm was designed in a german arsenal, the 7mm by mauser. this leads to the question of royalties.
i recall reading that germany was looking at going to a smaller caliber with the M98 but there were problem with the powders of the day, plus they had stockpiles of the 8mm ammo and tooling to make barrels and so on.
and some countries that adopted 6.5mm rifles early, went back to a larger caliber, for example japan, italy, romania.
another thing to consider, is that germany's main enemies were france and russia. compare the 8x57 to the 8x50R or the 7.62x54R and the rifles that fired them. the M98 vs the tubular magazine lebel or the 3 shot berthier.
i am a fan of both cartridge (and the rifles that fire them).
i recall reading that germany was looking at going to a smaller caliber with the M98 but there were problem with the powders of the day, plus they had stockpiles of the 8mm ammo and tooling to make barrels and so on.
and some countries that adopted 6.5mm rifles early, went back to a larger caliber, for example japan, italy, romania.
another thing to consider, is that germany's main enemies were france and russia. compare the 8x57 to the 8x50R or the 7.62x54R and the rifles that fired them. the M98 vs the tubular magazine lebel or the 3 shot berthier.
i am a fan of both cartridge (and the rifles that fire them).
