Why people hate wolves.

Gunneegoogoo said:
Where, and roughly when, did the eagle clan come from??
Click to expand...

I'm getting way off subject sorry guys
But in a way it reflect how climate change has can have a dramatic impact on are environment
I am continuously learning about my culture and history it part of being a Haida artist what we are going through is nothing new

I'm not totally sure Gunneegoogoo I do know it was after the raven clan
https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/v...ld11e&age=1465697097&fr2=p:s,v:v&fr=ipad&tt=b
http://haidagwaiihistory.########.ca/2012/06/dna-study-illuminates-haida-history.html

Here's A story from a Haida elder from Alaska oral history

Written by Woody Morrison
n Sangáa Morrison
ICE AGE
The weather started changing, there were more and more storms, the atmosphere was no longer pleasant all the time, foods that were once plentiful, were disappearing. The tides no longer reached their high-water marks, gradually they dropped lower and lower; the ocean level began to drop and the rivers ran faster.
The first thing we noticed was the tide, the ocean currents began to behave differently. The atmosphere (weather) was different; it rained real hard but there wasn't as much as before. It got warm and the trees started to die... things that weren't in the ocean before started showing up. Lots of things changed. A cold dry wind came from the north and certain plants started to die then, we got Sáahliigaast - Wind from the Sky. It blew straight down and was so cold that if it hit the water, the water shattered; anything it hit froze.
Cloak People
It was also during this time that Gyaat'aat X̱aat'aay (Cloak People) told us of the coming of the Hard Cold and, we would need to prepare ourselves for it. These new-comers wore a covering over their shoulders and backs made from the pelt of the Giant (Short-Faced) Bear, to protect themselves from the cold. This they taught us to catch and remove its hide. In exchange we taught them to make Tlúu Ínwaay (the Half canoe), a low, flat dugout (which was the original design used by X̱aadas for making “Ocean-Walking-Platforms” - the fore-runners to the dug-out canoes - floating platforms), "pulled by the Tide Lines". They were fastened together like catamarans.
Gyaat'aat X̱aat'aay (the Cloak People) stayed for a long time, and nearly perished with us when we were trapped by the ice. We were led through the ice to safety by Kelg Jaat Ice-woman (she was the first Human Hero) and, when we were free of the ice the Cloak People announced to us it was time to depart , “for our destination awaits.” They departed and some X̱aat'áay went with them.
X̱aadas who remained had a hard time staying alive. The beach kept moving out, away from the villages so the people had to walk a long ways to get to the ocean. Then after a very, very long time the beach started coming back in; the winters were shorter; we had to move back away from the ocean.
At a later time a second People, walking among the mountains came to a river and followed it to the coast; to our homelands. They were a nosy people (Guusawaa Xaat'aay) who kept trying to tell us how we should live. They were afraid of the ocean. They finally left, going south to their own destination.
The beach continued to come in and, the big rivers keep moving inland. Some short, dark-skinned people walked out from the mountains; they were South People… They needed somebody to make “boats” for them so they could continue their journey. X̱̱aadas gathered the materials and once again began making them. One of our men wanted to marry up with one of their women. Sgáagaas counseled against it; this would change the nature of the People; they were opposed to the marriage. That man and his family went ahead with the marriage and, the People split.
 
Last edited:
Bland said:
[/QUOTE

The reason I posed that question is this. An experienced bushman told me if you take out the Aplha male the rest of the males will start breeding, thereby actually ending in a net increase. I wondered if other held this belief as well?
Click to expand...

The alpha stops the other males from breeding his females. He still breeds them if and when they come in heat. All that happens if the alpha dies is that until the pack has a new alpha it's the quickest male to the draw. The only way there is an increase after the alpha dies is if his boys weren't swimming properly.

Think of an alpha wolf as like the herd bull elk. It's along the same lines.
 
All I know is that if I have any wolves on my land...they're my wolves!! The elk are my elk!!! Same goes for black bears, white tailed deer and the coyotes I occasionally see.

Some of you here make claims to be conservationists. When you own land that produces wildlife you can make that claim. Only humans that produce wildlife should have the opportunity to consume it. Everyone else should either pay someone who produces it for the opprtunity to consume it, thereby investing in the survival of that wildlife into perpetuity, or degrade the "public resource" and crown lands further into oblivion. You're childlren will gauk at well taxidermied museum mounts in the wildlife section of their local history museum.

If you have safaried, hunted, or guided in Africa you will know what true conservation means. The African model of wildlife conservation is the only truely sustainable model of conservation. It protects both predators and prey. How else could North American hunters fly to the other side of Earth, shoot the African equivalent of a trophy quality wolf (hyena), a deer (impala, wildebeast, etc), an elk (nyala etc), and a moose (kudu etc) in the same week and do so every year for a few thousand dollars? You simply cannot do that in any canadian province...notwithstanding some hunter hasn't managed to pull it off as I'm sure a few die hard guys over the decades have.

Nothing short of incredible conservation work and superb game management down in Africa. Look at the immitation conservationists we have here in Canada. "Shoot em all boys". Yup that works until you actually do it.
 
^^^^would hate to see private ownership of game here in Canada. IMO having huge fenced farms in Canada as a way towards conservation is plain wrong and would indicate a failure on our part. My understanding is that there are still some places in Africa where you don't hunt on a fenced farm - Tanzania, Mozambique, DRC etc. Of course those places are more expensive and you shoot a lot fewer game, but again IMHO, that is the natural way it should be.

And, just to point something out here, you own NONE of the wildlife on your property. It is owned by the Crown.
 
I enjoyed reading Farley Mowat books...I was also 12yrs old. As I grew up I realized that ol'Mowat was not exactly a scholar worth praising.
 
keegs said:
The alpha stops the other males from breeding his females. He still breeds them if and when they come in heat. All that happens if the alpha dies is that until the pack has a new alpha it's the quickest male to the draw. The only way there is an increase after the alpha dies is if his boys weren't swimming properly.

Think of an alpha wolf as like the herd bull elk. It's along the same lines.
Click to expand...

guys you got to update your knowledge. The notion of alpha came about by observing fenced wolves of different origins. The large carnivore bios are dropping the designation. A wolf pack in the wild is just a family group . Look it up.
 
umchorn2 said:
All I know is that if I have any wolves on my land...they're my wolves!! The elk are my elk!!! Same goes for black bears, white tailed deer and the coyotes I occasionally see.

Some of you here make claims to be conservationists. When you own land that produces wildlife you can make that claim. Only humans that produce wildlife should have the opportunity to consume it. Everyone else should either pay someone who produces it for the opprtunity to consume it, thereby investing in the survival of that wildlife into perpetuity, or degrade the "public resource" and crown lands further into oblivion. You're childlren will gauk at well taxidermied museum mounts in the wildlife section of their local history museum.

If you have safaried, hunted, or guided in Africa you will know what true conservation means. The African model of wildlife conservation is the only truely sustainable model of conservation. It protects both predators and prey. How else could North American hunters fly to the other side of Earth, shoot the African equivalent of a trophy quality wolf (hyena), a deer (impala, wildebeast, etc), an elk (nyala etc), and a moose (kudu etc) in the same week and do so every year for a few thousand dollars? You simply cannot do that in any canadian province...notwithstanding some hunter hasn't managed to pull it off as I'm sure a few die hard guys over the decades have.

Nothing short of incredible conservation work and superb game management down in Africa. Look at the immitation conservationists we have here in Canada. "Shoot em all boys". Yup that works until you actually do it.
Click to expand...

You own the the wild life realy My ancestors bin hear a long time and we have title to Haida Gwaii and we don't own the wildlife nither do the crown on Haida Gwaii we have to co-manage the resources and we share with others
How would you feel if Haidas took on your model of land ownership and started evicting all non-Haidas off Haida Gwaii and started charging people to hunt
After all we don't just own 6 inches of dirt on the surface but the all the resources under the ground and in the fishing grounds around Haida Gwaii should we adapt your lord and master approach to wildlife management Thank god we are not like that I'm not Lord and master of anything but my salf
 
Last edited:
umchorn2 said:
All I know is that if I have any wolves on my land...they're my wolves!! The elk are my elk!!! Same goes for black bears, white tailed deer and the coyotes I occasionally see.

Some of you here make claims to be conservationists. When you own land that produces wildlife you can make that claim. Only humans that produce wildlife should have the opportunity to consume it. Everyone else should either pay someone who produces it for the opprtunity to consume it, thereby investing in the survival of that wildlife into perpetuity, or degrade the "public resource" and crown lands further into oblivion. You're childlren will gauk at well taxidermied museum mounts in the wildlife section of their local history museum.

If you have safaried, hunted, or guided in Africa you will know what true conservation means. The African model of wildlife conservation is the only truely sustainable model of conservation. It protects both predators and prey. How else could North American hunters fly to the other side of Earth, shoot the African equivalent of a trophy quality wolf (hyena), a deer (impala, wildebeast, etc), an elk (nyala etc), and a moose (kudu etc) in the same week and do so every year for a few thousand dollars? You simply cannot do that in any canadian province...notwithstanding some hunter hasn't managed to pull it off as I'm sure a few die hard guys over the decades have.

Nothing short of incredible conservation work and superb game management down in Africa. Look at the immitation conservationists we have here in Canada. "Shoot em all boys". Yup that works until you actually do it.
Click to expand...

That is a really f@cked up point of view and over-inflated sense of entitlement, dude. Your opinion that you are thereby a "producer" and you should be paid for the opportunity to consume the product....well, I guess you should think about the royalties subsequently payable to the crown.

Brilliant.......
 
Farley was a village idiot. Wolves at time kill just for fun. I have found hamstrung deer and moose dead in the bush without a bite of meat taken. I cannot believe that the OP person is so naïve.
 
1899 said:
^^^^would hate to see private ownership of game here in Canada. IMO having huge fenced farms in Canada as a way towards conservation is plain wrong and would indicate a failure on our part. My understanding is that there are still some places in Africa where you don't hunt on a fenced farm - Tanzania, Mozambique, DRC etc. Of course those places are more expensive and you shoot a lot fewer game, but again IMHO, that is the natural way it should be.
Click to expand...

Agreed (again). Private ownership and commercialization of wildlife (especially large mammals and ungulates) is not a good idea. For example, it is one of the reasons why a large portion of the western USA and unfortunately, into Canada, now suffer from the aggregious effects of CWD in their deer populations. The "seven sisters" of North American conservation are foundation principles that we should always strive to achieve. They are not perfect, but they are about as close as we can get.

Sister #1 – Wildlife is Held in the Public Trust
Sister #2 – Prohibition on Commerce of Dead Wildlife
Sister #3 – Democratic Rule of Law
Sister #4 – Hunting Opportunity for All
Sister #5 – Non-Frivolous Use
Sister #6 – International Resources
Sister #7 – Scientific Management
Click to expand...

And while there are parts of Africa that have good wildlife management practices, the privatization that goes on there is NOT something that should be transferred to North America. No thank you.

1899 said:
And, just to point something out here, you own NONE of the wildlife on your property. It is owned by the Crown.
Click to expand...

See #1 above. Ideally, wildlife are considered to be held in the public trust, for everyone, and only managed by the Crown.
 
saskcop said:
Farley was a village idiot. Wolves at time kill just for fun. I have found hamstrung deer and moose dead in the bush without a bite of meat taken. I cannot believe that the OP person is so naïve.
Click to expand...

Actually not explained by something as human as 'fun', though often mistakenly described that way, but rather by science (see "surplus killing").
 
The lord and master approached to land ownership in Africa has keep most of the content in a constant state of Civil War
But from what I hear from the guys I sometimes work with land is very cheap just in case you want to move there haha
 
Last edited:
Is this picture real? I wonder how much that wolf would weigh?

http://www.enkivillage.com/largest-wolf.html



predator-hunting-2000s--24.jpg
 
horshur said:
guys you got to update your knowledge. The notion of alpha came about by observing fenced wolves of different origins. The large carnivore bios are dropping the designation. A wolf pack in the wild is just a family group . Look it up.
Click to expand...

Always willing to further my knowledge base. So I did look it up. First two webpages I happened upon upheld the traditional role of Alpha males and all the rest. You say just a family group??? Please explain further.
 
Last edited:
A wolf pack in the bush is momma, papa and from four to seven spring kids.
Larger packs are more than one family group, usually bunched up to make hunting easier.
If there is snow on the ground and you see wolf tracks you can easily determine what they are doing. If the tracks are in a single line, with each wolf stepping in the tracks of the wolf ahead of him, they are travelling from point A to point B, with the leader breaking trail and deciding where to go.
If single wolf tracks are scattered about, they are hunting.
 
Well Horshur and H4831 it appears from reading that link you are both on the money. Interesting, having read Mech's book years ago it is apparent it is time for an updated read. So these combined family groups (like on Babine Lake with 18+ packs) go home at the end of a tough day to separate dens perhaps? Do not recall the name of the wildlife documentary that focussed on wolves but one thing they mentioned; members that were not pups and not a breeding pair but adults that existed within the pack hierarchy as well. So room is made for loners without mating privileges. These were wild wolves under study. So unlike dogs a wolf ##### would not breed with her own son or vice versa? I have never hunted wolves but at this point given the moose #'s it will be shoot on sight for the immediate future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom