Why Power Factors So Low?
- Thread starter phil99
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It's hard to get into handgun shooting without being exposed to discussions on the stopping power of various cartridges. And I suppose this fpe comparison is another way to compare them. But there's an equal number of sites that discuss the non pertinence of this in a lot of different cases. About the only one that truly makes sense is the reason the US Army adopted the .45 over the .38 due to their conflict in the Phillipines and the current issue with using 9mm against jihad baffled terrorists in the middle east. For us there's one aspect that counts.... cost. The rest of the gun related stops made by police and the like show that it's as much the spot the bullet stops as the round itself other than perhaps the proven power of the .45ACP and .357 Magnum. And yet there's lots of stories of successful defenses using lighter calibers such as .38Spl and .25auto and other less than stellar performers according to a 300fpe "standard".
Cost you say? The reality of the IPSC and I'm sure the IDPA day is that you will not be able to find the time needed to pick up more than a fraction of your brass from what I've been told. And if you are stuck with leaving your brass behind for the most part then 9mm for minor and .40 for major make a LOT more sense then leaving .45 cases on the ground to be trodden upon. Now please consider that I have not been to a match yet but this is what I've been told by those that have.
Based on all this I'd have to agree that the best course of action is to just come out and shoot matches....
Cost you say? The reality of the IPSC and I'm sure the IDPA day is that you will not be able to find the time needed to pick up more than a fraction of your brass from what I've been told. And if you are stuck with leaving your brass behind for the most part then 9mm for minor and .40 for major make a LOT more sense then leaving .45 cases on the ground to be trodden upon. Now please consider that I have not been to a match yet but this is what I've been told by those that have.
Based on all this I'd have to agree that the best course of action is to just come out and shoot matches....
why do you think they are low ??? they are within 10%-20% of factory ammo.... you think every country has the same factory ammo, and IPSC is a world widesport where the USA is just a very small part of it.
considering the different barrellengths used, from 3" to 6" sure the power factor may look low when we are shooting full size guns. buttake IDPA for example and you will see alot of the smaller sized guns in local matches.
considering the different barrellengths used, from 3" to 6" sure the power factor may look low when we are shooting full size guns. buttake IDPA for example and you will see alot of the smaller sized guns in local matches.
I think I found my answer,
Quote-Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas-- accuracy, power, speed. This is the motto of the International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), encapsulating the three vital aspects of practical shooting. Speed and accuracy are skills present in the shooter, but power is an attribute of the weapon. Power, as the concept applies to practical shooting, refers to the capacity of the cartridge to impart a fight-stopping blow to an adversary.
To ensure that the cartridges used in practical shooting competitions are suitable man-stoppers, the rules call for a test of the competitor's ammunition. Originally, this was done by momentum on a hinged steel plate called a "ballistic pendulum."
Quote-Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas-- accuracy, power, speed. This is the motto of the International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), encapsulating the three vital aspects of practical shooting. Speed and accuracy are skills present in the shooter, but power is an attribute of the weapon. Power, as the concept applies to practical shooting, refers to the capacity of the cartridge to impart a fight-stopping blow to an adversary.
To ensure that the cartridges used in practical shooting competitions are suitable man-stoppers, the rules call for a test of the competitor's ammunition. Originally, this was done by momentum on a hinged steel plate called a "ballistic pendulum."
These questions tend to be answered the first time someone goes to the chrono and fails to make PF with a factory load....There was one shooter at the Tri/Rightangle match that barely made it with factory Winchester .45 230 gr in a Glock 21...In my gun that load is close to 190 PF
As it has been suggested, get out and see how things really work rather than reading stats on the internet.
As it has been suggested, get out and see how things really work rather than reading stats on the internet.
that is great,..keep going to matches,.it will all make sense pretty soon. I actually thought about this as well when I first started shooting in IPSC. I used winchester 147gr for two years out of my USP. It was chronied at 144-147pf!!! I also chronied some winchester ranger and Federal Hydra shok which both went under 140pf out of the same gun. So actually the target stuff was hotter than the self defence LE stuff. The top shooters would do well no matter what ammo they shot.....there is so much more to it than PF of ammo.
,....I have been shooting Combat masters ammo for the last two + years,...it is approx. 137-138 pf out of my tanfoglio. I have shot with really low PF ammo at a match,.and it did not really help any. Timing and other user issues make a better shooter. Hope you keep at it and have some fun.
Top guys are not loading to bare minimums. Top guys are loading to whatever provides the best recoil/impulse is, or whatever makes their gun function best. In Production, there is a danger in loading too close to minor power factor floor as environmental conditions can cause you to go sub minor, or (even worse) affect how your gun cycles, possibly causing malfunctions.
It is not low.
The power factor now 125 minor, major 170 std, 160 open 165 both in US,
formula is Bullet weight in grains x velocity in FPS / 1000.
This favours heavy bullets as before chrono's were available to all a metal pendulum was used to determine power base on a 45 auto mil ball round.
This was gradually adjusted to todays power factors, so everyone who has to shoot factory loads can make major in everthing except open with lighter 121 and 125 grn bullets.
Do not confuse power factor with muzzle energy witch is
E = m • v2 / (2 • 32.1739 • 7000).
A 175 PF open gun shooting a 125 grn at 1400 fps is 545 ft lb of energy, no slouch to me.
some other MEs are
9 mm Luger 350
.357 Sig 475
.357 Mag 550
.38 Special 200
10mm Auto 650
.40 SW 425
.44 Mag 1000
.45 GAP 400
.45 ACP 400
.45 Colt 370
.454 Casull 1900
.460 SW 2400
.50 AE 1500
.500 SW 2600
It's just a game. Don't worry about the numbers and enjoy it for what it is.
That being said... the minimum PF's are more for those who want to gain every millimeter advantage they can. They load so light to get minimum muzzle rise. So they made sure there is a minimum PF to make it fair to all competitors.
Personally, I load to give the best results on target and not worry about muzzle rise and all those small little things. My loads are well over minimum but like I said, they produce the best results out of my Prod and STD guns during practice. The only time I ever used the club chrono was after I found the best load and made sure it was well over minimum. It was, so it's good enuff...
Worry more about getting your first two matches in without getting DQed and then on technique before worrying about measly little number games.
That being said... the minimum PF's are more for those who want to gain every millimeter advantage they can. They load so light to get minimum muzzle rise. So they made sure there is a minimum PF to make it fair to all competitors.
Personally, I load to give the best results on target and not worry about muzzle rise and all those small little things. My loads are well over minimum but like I said, they produce the best results out of my Prod and STD guns during practice. The only time I ever used the club chrono was after I found the best load and made sure it was well over minimum. It was, so it's good enuff...
Worry more about getting your first two matches in without getting DQed and then on technique before worrying about measly little number games.
If you mean these being "metric", then the two comps I've shot this year in the Quebec Nasgun had tons of them (Sorel and Trois Rivieres).
At my club, we have a pile of them and are doing Mozambique drills all the time. Is there a rule against using these?
They seem to be a favorite of my friends Phillippe and Simon's designed stages.
They were fine for 2008, as of the new rule book they are no longer a valid IPSC target. There is only the "IPSC Target" (no more classic or metric, although it's what was called the classic).
Rule 4.2.1: There is only one type of paper target approved for use in IPSC Handgun matches (see Appendix B2).
Appendix B2 shows what is now called the "IPSC Target", which used to be called the "Classic" target.
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