The market is flooded with 91/30s but there seem to be few 91's, and very few before 1917. Despite the fact that millions were built, and millions captured! Can anyone explain why? Other than the fact they are 20+yrs older. I would be interested in buying a WW1 era 91' - though it will likely be beat up compared to the almost new 91/30s out there. But it has a heck of a lot more history.
Why so few Mosin 91's vs 91/30s?
- Thread starter sledge
- Start date
WW1, Bolshevic Revolution, Russian Civil War, Spanish Civil War, Winter War with Finland, WW2 and aid to Communist Revolutions all over the world took a heavy toll on the Model 1891 rifles. Finally, they were made in much smaller numbers than the 1891/30 rifles.
Some day, I am GONNA have one of those Dragoons with the KA3 serial number prefix: Cossack Rifle (Kazakskaya Vintovka).
They seem to be a little thinner on the ground than turkey dentures, though.
Has anybody here seen one?
BIG problem with MNs is the fact that the factory information was on the BARREL.... and barrels get replaced. Similar to the Ross problem: information was on the WOOD..... and wood gets sanded when Bubba gets within range of the stuff.
I think there are a lot of 91s running around, looking like 91/30s. A purpose-built 91/30 should have a ROUND receiver but there seem to be a large number with Octagonal frames which I suspect are reworked, rebuilt '91 frames. I just don't have the $$$ to prove this, except in the case of my Finn Dragoon. Anyone offer any insight into this?
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They seem to be a little thinner on the ground than turkey dentures, though.
Has anybody here seen one?
BIG problem with MNs is the fact that the factory information was on the BARREL.... and barrels get replaced. Similar to the Ross problem: information was on the WOOD..... and wood gets sanded when Bubba gets within range of the stuff.
I think there are a lot of 91s running around, looking like 91/30s. A purpose-built 91/30 should have a ROUND receiver but there seem to be a large number with Octagonal frames which I suspect are reworked, rebuilt '91 frames. I just don't have the $$$ to prove this, except in the case of my Finn Dragoon. Anyone offer any insight into this?
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I think as JP hinted, many of the early 91/30's were probably made up of left over 91 parts, especially recievers vs true conversions. You see this on many other rifles produced during WWII; old parts were recycled on rifles once assembly or desiginations were changed (Late 1945 G43's for example - which should have been stamped K43).
I know that mid-war to late war 91/30's you sometimes see some real conversions, very old recievers on the 91/30 format and some of these were probably done additionaly post war when the Laminated stocks/refurbishement took place.
I know that mid-war to late war 91/30's you sometimes see some real conversions, very old recievers on the 91/30 format and some of these were probably done additionaly post war when the Laminated stocks/refurbishement took place.
Sometime in the '30s and around the time of the war, many of the Model 1891 rifles were "upgraded" to the standard of the 91/30, therefore becoming a 91/30. One thing involved in this was upgrading the rear sights to be metric rather than in the old Russian arshin, roughly equivalent to yards.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
I've only seen two 91's, my Remington, Finn capture, and a badly abused Westinghouse.
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Thanks guys, good info, good theories. I am also sure the fact that illegal private ownership of weapons in the Soviet Union also spelled doom for the 91'. Perhaps made it all to easy to collect every 91 out there and either convert it to 91/30, melt it down to something else, or sell it off to someone else.
Seems like those handful of WW1 dated 91's that Wolverine had in the surplus sale last week were a good deal for $250. I had a 91' dated in 1927, arshins on the sight, hex receiver, in poor to good condition, that I bought off Century Arms back in 1990 for $20. I recently sold it because I wanted a WW1 date - thinking it would be an easy find. I guess I should have ran this thread before I sold that piece. Doh!
I have a renewed interest in WW1 and am trying to get some major power main battle rifles with war dates. I have my 1916 SMLE - one of my first rifles, and I recently acquired a 1917 Eddystone. Now that big rifle can really shoot, 30-06 felt like 5.56, and its got a great sight on it too.
Seems like those handful of WW1 dated 91's that Wolverine had in the surplus sale last week were a good deal for $250. I had a 91' dated in 1927, arshins on the sight, hex receiver, in poor to good condition, that I bought off Century Arms back in 1990 for $20. I recently sold it because I wanted a WW1 date - thinking it would be an easy find. I guess I should have ran this thread before I sold that piece. Doh!
I have a renewed interest in WW1 and am trying to get some major power main battle rifles with war dates. I have my 1916 SMLE - one of my first rifles, and I recently acquired a 1917 Eddystone. Now that big rifle can really shoot, 30-06 felt like 5.56, and its got a great sight on it too.
I've seen one in a gunshop in Latvia. M1907 carbine, marked KA3. All original and matching! Price was over 2000.00 euros though.
I've got an older reference that suggests that 91 barrels were taken and used to produce PPSh barrels, one 91 barrel yielding 2 PPSh barrels.
I've seen a few pictures of Partisans and militias using M91s during the WWII period.
I've seen a few pictures of Partisans and militias using M91s during the WWII period.
PerversPépère
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- Location
- Shawinigan (Quebec)
