Why so hard?

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Dariouskater

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Is there a specific reason it is almost impossible to find a Norinco with the long barrel?

I'm trying to design a tactical Dmr and am willing to trade the extra weight and length for the added distance.
If that is the case that is. I'm completely new to this so please educate me. .

Will having the longer barrel give a higher accuracy at longer distances or is it beget to just go with the shorty?

For that matter should I go with a different bar model all together. I would like to get it up to 800 yds.

I'm looking to put a blackfeather stock on it.

Is this feasible?
 
I think there are a few 22 inch models for sale on the EE right now. A longer barrel will give you more velocity for sure, not necessarily more accuracy. From what i have read, shorter barrels are more stiffer and hence more accurate although just how much more accurate would be up for debate and depends more on the shooter in my opinion....
 
The M305 is a fickle mistress.

When she is in her 22, her 18 are hard to find.

When she is in her 18, her 22 are impossible to spot.
 
So what im looking at is that the range and accuracy is not all that different whether you have the 22 or the 18. due to the stiffness of the barrel?

What would the effective range be on that? Is there a definitive number or is it completely dependant on who is shooting? I mean with a stock rifle.
 
Your questions are pretty broad. What kind of accuracy are you trying to achieve? A cheap bolt action will outshoot a done up norc all day. If you just want to hit large gongs at distance then the M305 is great. If you're expecting match accuracy you better love that rifle more than life itself cos its gonna cost you thousands to get it shooting like a $600 bolt action. Define your accuracy goals.
 
Dariouskater said:
So what im looking at is that the range and accuracy is not all that different whether you have the 22 or the 18. due to the stiffness of the barrel?

What would the effective range be on that? Is there a definitive number or is it completely dependant on who is shooting? I mean with a stock rifle.
Click to expand...

Think about losing about 15-25 FPS per inch of barrel lost. This is just an estimate since depending on loading and the type of bullet used the range of overall velocity lost could be between 8-15%. From my reading, as long as you stay above the speed of sound, the bullets should be stable and accuracy should be comparable regardless of barrel length.

At 800 yards, 168 grain Federal Gold Medal Match is at 1,360 FPS when launched at 2600 FPS (at the muzzle). Say this was from a 22" barrel (which is likely given the MV), the bullet from an 18" barrel would be traveling at an estimated speed of 1260 FPS. The speed of sound is 1,125 FPS at sea level, at 68 deg., in dry air so things should be good. If you are higher, hotter or in more humid conditions this will change as they will with higher BC bullets (175 grain VLD perhaps).

The barrel length is not going to be the deciding factor.

See the link below for more:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...t-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
 
Thanks for the answers so far. To clarify I am looking to make a tactical Dmr with a range of 7-900 yards. I want to be able to practice to the point where I can get 5 round grouping under 2" at this range. As well I like the black feather design and would like to modify into it. Hence the norc. To start.

If there is a better method that would work with the Dame style please let me know. I'm not concerned with budget at this moment as I am just planning but would like to keep the whole project under 1500 to start and can add more at a later date.

How this clarifies some
 
Dariouskater said:
Thanks for the answers so far. To clarify I am looking to make a tactical Dmr with a range of 7-900 yards. I want to be able to practice to the point where I can get 5 round grouping under 2" at this range. As well I like the black feather design and would like to modify into it. Hence the norc. To start.

If there is a better method that would work with the Dame style please let me know. I'm not concerned with budget at this moment as I am just planning but would like to keep the whole project under 1500 to start and can add more at a later date.

How this clarifies some
Click to expand...

Without trying to be insulting, you should do some more research regarding what "tactical DMR" means.

If you want the accuracy you have indicated, an M305 is the wrong direction for you. 2" at 900 yards (0.2 MOA) with any rifle and any round is superb accuracy...out of an M1A pattern rifle it is a unicorn dream. I've not heard of this being done with any semi-auto 308.

Start with the cheapest Remington 700 or Savage 10+ series that you can find and spend the most that you can on good glass (Sightron Siii is the best value I've seen) - that will easily eat you $1,500 budget. You can upgrade the rifle as you go (match barrel $500, action truing $300, trigger $250, stock $800) but not the glass.

Also, you'll need to start building your own bullets so plan on reloading. If you are intent on that level of precision you'll be an F-Class Open champ by the time you achieve it.
 
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No offense taken. Actually thank you for the honest criticism. I am completely new to this and I'm not sure the path I'm going so this helps clarify a lot. Looks like I'm back to the research board again from scratch.

OK so now I see wwere I'm going wrong. Just did a quick bit of research and although I'm thinking along the same lines as far as marksman go I'm thinking in the wrong range class altogether. So I'm looking for a peak range of 550 at the furthest which makes sense
 
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I have a Norinco M305, have done a couple cheap upgrades...archangel stock, and guide rod. The reality is that these are not a super accurate rifle. A average M305 is a 2 MOA rifle, so your 800 yard shot is going to see a group of 16".

I like mine, but it is a chinese copy of a battle rifle. The advantage is it is cheap and NR...relatively, in comparison to many AR platforms.
 
OK so I understand that I was in the wrong mindset thinking about the long range. I'm not worried about that. I'm OK with the 500 yard range.

I'll the MOA makes sense now.

So is there a better alternative for a higher quality dmr besides going out and buying a $3000 M39?

Over all its the style I fell in love with from the moment I held one. That's what I'm looking for. And I'd like to put the time and effort into making it worth the waiting and effort.

Is choosing the Norinco going to limit Any total outcome right off the get go?
 
Dariouskater said:
OK so I understand that I was in the wrong mindset thinking about the long range. I'm not worried about that. I'm OK with the 500 yard range.

I'll the MOA makes sense now.

So is there a better alternative for a higher quality dmr besides going out and buying a $3000 M39?

Over all its the style I fell in love with from the moment I held one. That's what I'm looking for. And I'd like to put the time and effort into making it worth the waiting and effort.

Is choosing the Norinco going to limit Any total outcome right off the get go?
Click to expand...

What do you want to achieve at 500 yards? If it is a 2" group, that is still under 0.5 MOA - good bolt gun territory and superb semi-auto territory. I doubt that real, military DMR rifles achieve this, they only need to achieve minute-of-man at extended range...say a 10" group (i.e. 2 MOA). An M14-style rifle can achieve 2 MOA - see the 1.5 MOA Challenge thread in this sub-forum.

There are some great AR platform guns (308 and 5.56) that reputedly can achieve 0.5 MOA. Think top end manufacturers like JP Enterprises, LaRue, LMT, etc. You'll pay for the privilege but I'm sure they are very nice.
 
2" at 900 is pretty much a pipe dream with any 'off-the-rack' rifle and close to it with a custom built rifle. Impossible with a stock M305 regardless of the ammo used. Those rifles just aren't up to it, as manufactured. And practice won't fix that.
What you really need is an M305 or M1A receiver. Downside is there aren't any. Upside is that Frontier is listing an 18.5" M305 at $549. And one of the accurizing steps towards any kind of low MOA is changing the barrel.
 
Dariouskater said:
So is there a better alternative for a higher quality dmr besides going out and buying a $3000 M39?

Is choosing the Norinco going to limit Any total outcome right off the get go?
Click to expand...

To quote Barney/Tactical Teacher - "The Noriinco-Plinko is a diamond in the rough. You bought two didn't you?"

For a small amount & little over-all cost you can easily achieve the results noted above by other members with the Norc.

While a true M14/M1A is tempting ala Springfield, LRB or Fulton Armory, the amount saved versus them and the Norc is easily put towards quality optics and ammunition. Buying one of the afore-mentioned brands will not necessarily guarantee .5 - 1.5 MOA.

Get the Norc (your d*ck won't fall off, Barney promises that) then read the stickys at the top of this forum for 10years plus of Norc insight or search the forum here to help prevent any more imminent d*ck loss that ensues.
 
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For all your efforts expect to get marginal/grudgingly acceptable results at maybe 700 maximum.

But 900? Not so much IMO. This is where a superb DMR would be as rare as diamonds (Plus 700) and truly accurate rifles of another designation take over the driving seat.

Cheers!
 
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