Why sporterize?
- Thread starter GBG
- Start date
Most of the time it was just to make a rifle lighter and easier to carry. Other reasons i could see would be to make it more ergonomic (no hard steel buttplates), better fit to you personally, and sometimes just to make it more unique, make it "your" rifle instead of one of countless that look exactly the same, the very same reasons people do custom paint jobs and other mods to bikes and cars, or etc.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Too long. Too heavy. Inadequate iron sights. Want to mount a telescope. Embarassment. Stock doesn't feel right. Supply and demand. The list goes on.
In the 1950s and 60s, people had less cash than today. The commercial gun makers were making comparatively expensive guns. There were tens upon tens of thousands of "old army guns" kicking around. There was so much interest in working on these guns, that whole industries for new stocks, jigs and fittings, as well as new parts appeared. The NRA even published 'how to' manuals, and Lyman had similar books with their take on what to chop off, and of course which of their sights to slap on.
In the 1950s and 60s, people had less cash than today. The commercial gun makers were making comparatively expensive guns. There were tens upon tens of thousands of "old army guns" kicking around. There was so much interest in working on these guns, that whole industries for new stocks, jigs and fittings, as well as new parts appeared. The NRA even published 'how to' manuals, and Lyman had similar books with their take on what to chop off, and of course which of their sights to slap on.
TargetAcquired
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Advantage = weight reduction.
Many branches of my family ate endless amounts of 1st quality moosemeat that was obtained via a sporterized #4 enfields until about the mid/late 80's. My Grandfather was an engineer in WWII and did not 'bringback' any guns, but he did pick pick up a #4 for a song when he moved to Canada and had a friend sporterize it for him (I don't know if that was the term for it back then) because he felt it was too heavy and unwieldy. He does not know how many Moose he took, it wasn't something to brag about, he was putting food on the table. When he no longer needed to hunt, he gave it up. A few Uncles picked it up, but none of them fought for the #4 - they just went and got their own, by then they cost 2 songs.
Then the LGR (aka kaiju) eventually passed through the breach, each and every one of those guns went into the garbage. They were'nt worth the effort or aggrivation. I have 1 family member left in that generation that hunts, but now it is only deer and it's with a 30-30. I obtained a sporter #4 about 2 years ago for him, cost $120. He thanked me and looked at it fondly, but he never carries it because it's too much gun for deer, and even sportered it's heavier and longer than his deer gun.
Many branches of my family ate endless amounts of 1st quality moosemeat that was obtained via a sporterized #4 enfields until about the mid/late 80's. My Grandfather was an engineer in WWII and did not 'bringback' any guns, but he did pick pick up a #4 for a song when he moved to Canada and had a friend sporterize it for him (I don't know if that was the term for it back then) because he felt it was too heavy and unwieldy. He does not know how many Moose he took, it wasn't something to brag about, he was putting food on the table. When he no longer needed to hunt, he gave it up. A few Uncles picked it up, but none of them fought for the #4 - they just went and got their own, by then they cost 2 songs.
Then the LGR (aka kaiju) eventually passed through the breach, each and every one of those guns went into the garbage. They were'nt worth the effort or aggrivation. I have 1 family member left in that generation that hunts, but now it is only deer and it's with a 30-30. I obtained a sporter #4 about 2 years ago for him, cost $120. He thanked me and looked at it fondly, but he never carries it because it's too much gun for deer, and even sportered it's heavier and longer than his deer gun.
It's like with SKSs today. They're inexpensive, so people are sporterizing, bubbaing, customizing, etc. If they're interests aren't collecting, it makes obvious sense. For those who are about original military condition, it's blasphemy. It's all about perception, eh?
The vast majority of the so called sporterizing of Lee Enfield 303 British rifles, was done by very large retailers in Canada.
Companies such as Army and Navy, Woodward's, Sears and War Surplus stores, bought train loads of full wood rifles, staring about 1950. No body in their right mind would take these monstrosities out hunting, but when the retailers cut much of the front wood off, a nation starved for hunting rifles, bought up masses of them, for prices starting at about twenty dollars each, and went big game hunting with them.
Companies such as Army and Navy, Woodward's, Sears and War Surplus stores, bought train loads of full wood rifles, staring about 1950. No body in their right mind would take these monstrosities out hunting, but when the retailers cut much of the front wood off, a nation starved for hunting rifles, bought up masses of them, for prices starting at about twenty dollars each, and went big game hunting with them.
I have an old SIR catalogue tucked away somewhere. A sportered Lee Enfield used to go for about $25. A Weatherby went for $125. People wanted cheap hunting rifles, and the war was still recent and not yet history to be preserved. Full wood stocks, bayonet mounts, and everything else not needed for hunting went in the trash. There are actually some pretty nice examples of modified sporters made by Parker Hale and others during this time. Others are backroom hacksaw jobs.
The whole reason I was attracted to 'surps in the first place was that they were affordable, and robust rifles. If they could be dragged through trenches in all seasons, they could certainly hold their own for 2 weeks of deer season!
I can think of a couple of reasons why it would have been done.
Cost:
Time is a funny thing...When I was a lad a .303 could be had for 10 bucks. One already "sported" was a few bucks more. By the time I got my FAC, you could still mail order 'surps, and they were still much cheaper than equivalent factory made sporting rifles. For cost alone, a fully functional deer slayer could be acquired using a 'surp for waaaaay less $'s. Once carried a few miles, the notion of lopping off a pound or two made perfect sense. There was a glut of surplus rifles on the market, and (history not so distant then) very few collectors.
Association:
My Father came from Germany to Canada in '57. He is a Berliner, and did not enjoy the happiest of childhoods. Kids who bore witness to that flavour of hell still carry some baggage today. His first rifle when he got here was a vz24 (mine now) of which he promptly paid a smith to bend the bolt and slap a scope on it. Quality workmanship was done, but ultimately (50 years later) the cost in devalued it for today's collectors. Doesn't bug him in the slightest...having "enjoyed" the actual experience of seeing, hearing, and (when the bodies bloated) smelling the effects of these rifle's actual purpose, his take on preserving history is much different than a young collector today. Only a few days ago "lest we forget" was the theme...Don't lose sight of the dwindling numbers of folks who can't forget, no matter how hard they try!
I can think of a couple of reasons why it would have been done.
Cost:
Time is a funny thing...When I was a lad a .303 could be had for 10 bucks. One already "sported" was a few bucks more. By the time I got my FAC, you could still mail order 'surps, and they were still much cheaper than equivalent factory made sporting rifles. For cost alone, a fully functional deer slayer could be acquired using a 'surp for waaaaay less $'s. Once carried a few miles, the notion of lopping off a pound or two made perfect sense. There was a glut of surplus rifles on the market, and (history not so distant then) very few collectors.
Association:
My Father came from Germany to Canada in '57. He is a Berliner, and did not enjoy the happiest of childhoods. Kids who bore witness to that flavour of hell still carry some baggage today. His first rifle when he got here was a vz24 (mine now) of which he promptly paid a smith to bend the bolt and slap a scope on it. Quality workmanship was done, but ultimately (50 years later) the cost in devalued it for today's collectors. Doesn't bug him in the slightest...having "enjoyed" the actual experience of seeing, hearing, and (when the bodies bloated) smelling the effects of these rifle's actual purpose, his take on preserving history is much different than a young collector today. Only a few days ago "lest we forget" was the theme...Don't lose sight of the dwindling numbers of folks who can't forget, no matter how hard they try!
My guess is it was more for appearance than anything else. The vast majority of "sporter" mods made the rifle shoot worse than if left alone, scope mounting excluded. I don't understand the weight part at all. How can you get the meat out of the bush if you can't take the weight of the rifle? It kind of the same thing as hunting deer with a 300 winmag, you don't need it but lots of guys do it anyway.
Have to admit, I have seen some mighty ###y looking wood on Parker Hale converted .303's. Absolutely gorgeous stocks!
- Location
- Durham Region
It was to make it's appearance so poor that your friends weren't inclined to steal your only firearm.
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
I think a lot of us milsurp guys have an appreciation for Sporterized rifles for what they are. I have several here that will never be altered. I also have a few that will be. If it is ca hack job that can be turned into a functional work of art then why not? I have a MkIII Ross here that has been cut up with a hacksaw, hand file, pocket knife and maybe even a hatchet. I've re cut it's crown to repair the basement cut job, reshaped the stock to resemble an M-10, purchased a 'professional' stock finishing kit to make it glow, and am polishing the metal in preparation for rust bluing the whole package. It was a $200 Sporterized Ross that no one has loved, and I plan on pouring in a couple hundred hours of my time to give it some dignity and do it how it should have been done. When it is finished it will be a high-quality hunting rifle that I hope will remain in my family for many many years. IMO that is what distinguishes a proper sporting rifle from a tool. I also believe that the level of craftsmanship employed when building these directly impacts a Sporterized milsurps collectability. There are many things about some of these converted rifles that I think you'd have a tough time beating with what the factories have to offer. The Ross' thumb slide safety on my MkII* is a great example. Receiver mounted fully adjustable aperture sights on some are another. The Ross' trigger, and shape of its stock are two more. Guess I just like my bubba'd rifles!
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antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I don't really see a point to it I have a bring back no4 mk1 and its the gun dragged around Europe by one of my great grandfathers he did not sporterize it and used it to hunt the same way I do it may be heavy but that just builds character in you
now if you want a sporting rifle buy one they are cheap enough
now if you want a sporting rifle buy one they are cheap enough
"...just to make a rifle lighter and easier to carry..." Yep. And because there was a backlash against military rifles, like camster says. Far moreso after W.W. I.
"...seen some mighty ###y looking wood..." Yep. Not only Parker-Hales either. Bishop Stocks business was nearly all high end wood for milsurps. Wood that'd cost a kidney these days.
"...By the time I got my FAC, you could..." Not from or in the States. No FAC's in 1968, anyway, but the U.S. GCA of '68 ended mail order firearms Stateside.
"...seen some mighty ###y looking wood..." Yep. Not only Parker-Hales either. Bishop Stocks business was nearly all high end wood for milsurps. Wood that'd cost a kidney these days.
"...By the time I got my FAC, you could..." Not from or in the States. No FAC's in 1968, anyway, but the U.S. GCA of '68 ended mail order firearms Stateside.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
This is no longer 1950, and yet people still do hack jobs on original rifles. And flying pig, that is no insult to you since you rescued your rifle and turned it into something useful.
I have two Ross rifles in their original state and I would not ever think of sportyizing them. I would have had a third, but ran out of money! AND all three were different!
I have two Ross rifles in their original state and I would not ever think of sportyizing them. I would have had a third, but ran out of money! AND all three were different!
For what they are, they're awesome, and many still actually function!
Regarding pristine items, I keep thinking of the toys I received as a child. If I had not opened them up, and played the hell out of them I'd be very well off today. Most kids had the very same toy, some had exceptional ones too. Greedy little b@stards ruined the greatest value by opening the package though... Only the most decadent collector would purchase NIP actions figures from 30+ years ago, and open the box to play with them. Ruin it by scratching your initials in it's foot.
Keeping it real, milk bottles are worth more now too...Unlike rifles, milk bottles were in many homes. Dropped off, and collected regularly by the most common of folks. The FOOLS never saved their bottles for pennies, or the caps (branded with local dairies and no deposit) that were in them.
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Now, but not then. For decades longer than any of those wars were fought, 'surps were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more affordable than a factory-made sporter by a serious margin.
A Mosin Nagant or Swedish Mauser can still be had for half the price of any factory hunting rifle. And an SKS for $200. Can you buy another semi auto centrefire for under $700? It may not seem like a lot of money to most of us, but there are still a number of people buying these things to take hunting on a budget.
Sakoman .308
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I always thought people cut them down to make them easier to carry on long hunts.
All this the week after i saw that episode of Gunsmoke where they sporterized a very nice looking Ross.
PS guys & girls please remember that while this is a Canadian site, we are not all "in Canada" but on the World wide web, so please stop the "whilst in Rome" type comments.
PS guys & girls please remember that while this is a Canadian site, we are not all "in Canada" but on the World wide web, so please stop the "whilst in Rome" type comments.
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