why the 3030?
- Thread starter remington308
- Start date
Best I keep me lips tight then as I wouldn't wish anyone to know I added
another one to my collection.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
So sights are mainly what limits it. I thought it was low velocity/ energy all these years.
So if I put my 3.5-10 on a marlin 336TS carbine, It should be good out to where the MOA of the rifle begins falls outside the vitals diameter of the Deer right?
My marlin was accurate, and routinely fired 3 shots into 1 MOA, so on 10" vital thats,..... a thousand yards,... give or take a couple feet.
Of course i'm kidding here
,..... just because you said it's mostly limited by sights.I have to disagree on it's limitation. My Marlin was scoped 30 years ago, and most i've seen are, plus they are as accurate as most bolt guns i've seen out of the box, or their MOA at 100 is similar anyhow.
Heres what limits it's usefulness for a clean kill........
My Marlin would barely break 1950fpsMV on a cold late november day with flat nose 170 Imperial KKSPs, a round of choice in it's day and claimed to be 2200 fps MV in a 20" carbine. At my low actual muzzle velocity, thats leaving me with only 500 ft- lbs of energy at 300yds. Is this enough to drop deer cleanly?
For comparison, my BLR81 in .308 with 20" bbl, would drive 165gr BTSP @ 2550-2600, leaving a mere 1500 ft -lbs @ 300yds, to drive home and expand the bullet. Thats 3 times the energy remaining at 300yds. This is my clean kill minimum.
If you believe of tempoary incapacitation of the CNS from hydrostaic shock( the funny thing that drops an animal where it stands though not neccessarily killing it instanly), as I do, then you need 2000-2200fps for this to start occurring. If this is true, and theres much debate over the last 60 or so years, my Marlin dosen't have it at the muzzle, the .308 in the carbine falls out at around 300yds(2150fps)
I'm going to say a BLR in .308 is a better deer dropper at 300yds, than my Marlin 336TS was at the muzzle!!!
I shot deer at as low 23yds with the marlin, and what I say appears to be true.
Now will the .30-30 kill a deer? Most certainly, and at distance, only problem I see is in recovering a solidly hit animal, that may have been put down at or near it was standing with the .308 carbine, which handles as fast and nicely as the Marlin.
I said all this to try and put at least a little effort into collecting each post count, unlike kamlooky.
Happy New Year everyone. I enjoy wrangling with you all.
Let the flaming begin!!!!!
So sights are mainly what limits it. I thought it was low velocity/ energy all these years.
So if I put my 3.5-10 on a marlin 336TS carbine, It should be good out to where the MOA of the rifle begins falls outside the vitals diameter of the Deer right?
My marlin was accurate, and routinely fired 3 shots into 1 MOA, so on 10" vital thats,..... a thousand yards,... give or take a couple feet.
Of course i'm kidding here
I have to disagree on it's limitation. My Marlin was scoped 30 years ago, and most i've seen are, plus they are as accurate as most bolt guns i've seen out of the box, or their MOA at 100 is similar anyhow.
Heres what limits it's usefulness for a clean kill........
My Marlin would barely break 1950fpsMV on a cold late november day with flat nose 170 Imperial KKSPs, a round of choice in it's day and claimed to be 2200 fps MV in a 20" carbine. At my low actual muzzle velocity, thats leaving me with only 500 ft- lbs of energy at 300yds. Is this enough to drop deer cleanly?
For comparison, my BLR81 in .308 with 20" bbl, would drive 165gr BTSP @ 2550-2600, leaving a mere 1500 ft -lbs @ 300yds, to drive home and expand the bullet. Thats 3 times the energy remaining at 300yds. This is my clean kill minimum.
If you believe of tempoary incapacitation of the CNS from hydrostaic shock( the funny thing that drops an animal where it stands though not neccessarily killing it instanly), as I do, then you need 2000-2200fps for this to start occurring. If this is true, and theres much debate over the last 60 or so years, my Marlin dosen't have it at the muzzle, the .308 in the carbine falls out at around 300yds(2150fps)
I'm going to say a BLR in .308 is a better deer dropper at 300yds, than my Marlin 336TS was at the muzzle!!!
I shot deer at as low 23yds with the marlin, and what I say appears to be true.
Now will the .30-30 kill a deer? Most certainly, and at distance, only problem I see is in recovering a solidly hit animal, that may have been put down at or near it was standing with the .308 carbine, which handles as fast and nicely as the Marlin.
I said all this to try and put at least a little effort into collecting each post count, unlike kamlooky.
Happy New Year everyone. I enjoy wrangling with you all.
Let the flaming begin!!!!!
And, and, and no goll dang errers in spell'in ta bewt......
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
30-30 one shot, 85 yards 170grain Hornady interlock. No tracking, just fell down dead.
Thank you very much for your cardboard box in the bush tests... As well as your ability to count my posts... You sir, are a shooting expert... Lmao... Physics is irrelevant in the face of a box and internet access...
So sights are mainly what limits it. I thought it was low velocity/ energy all these years.
So if I put my 3.5-10 on a marlin 336TS carbine, It should be good out to where the MOA of the rifle begins falls outside the vitals diameter of the Deer right?
My marlin was accurate, and routinely fired 3 shots into 1 MOA, so on 10" vital thats,..... a thousand yards,... give or take a couple feet.
Of course i'm kidding here
I have to disagree on it's limitation. My Marlin was scoped 30 years ago, and most i've seen are, plus they are as accurate as most bolt guns i've seen out of the box, or their MOA at 100 is similar anyhow.
Heres what limits it's usefulness for a clean kill........
My Marlin would barely break 1950fpsMV on a cold late november day with flat nose 170 Imperial KKSPs, a round of choice in it's day and claimed to be 2200 fps MV in a 20" carbine. At my low actual muzzle velocity, thats leaving me with only 500 ft- lbs of energy at 300yds. Is this enough to drop deer cleanly?
For comparison, my BLR81 in .308 with 20" bbl, would drive 165gr BTSP @ 2550-2600, leaving a mere 1500 ft -lbs @ 300yds, to drive home and expand the bullet. Thats 3 times the energy remaining at 300yds. This is my clean kill minimum.
If you believe of tempoary incapacitation of the CNS from hydrostaic shock( the funny thing that drops an animal where it stands though not neccessarily killing it instanly), as I do, then you need 2000-2200fps for this to start occurring. If this is true, and theres much debate over the last 60 or so years, my Marlin dosen't have it at the muzzle, the .308 in the carbine falls out at around 300yds(2150fps)
I'm going to say a BLR in .308 is a better deer dropper at 300yds, than my Marlin 336TS was at the muzzle!!!
I shot deer at as low 23yds with the marlin, and what I say appears to be true.
Now will the .30-30 kill a deer? Most certainly, and at distance, only problem I see is in recovering a solidly hit animal, that may have been put down at or near it was standing with the .308 carbine, which handles as fast and nicely as the Marlin.
I said all this to try and put at least a little effort into collecting each post count, unlike kamlooky.
Happy New Year everyone. I enjoy wrangling with you all.
Let the flaming begin!!!!!
If one went by what the books or a piece of paper all the time the 30-30 doesn't look good.
The multiple deer taken at 150-258yds can't read though, guess they weren't told the 30-30 was to weak to kill them cleanly.
How many do you have?... Is that what you use for deer hunting?... I haven't seen anyome say they won't kill deer...
I have a few different rifles, few different calibres as well. I pick which rifle i use depending on where i am hunting and the terrain.
The 30-30 i have is a marlin 30AS with a fixed 4x scope, if the area i am hunting is going to have longer shots available or the potential for bigger game i use a different rifle.
Ok... Fair enough... But why do you need to switch rifles?... Are you going past the 250 yards the 30-30 crowd says they are good to now?.. Is it because whatever you are shooting at 300 is no good at 100?...
Elk and moose are a little harder to kill then deer, and after 300 the bullets from a 30-30 really start to drop.
The 30-30 is also nicer to carry, (short and light) in some of the tighter brush.
Not sure if this crosses over or not, but here's a thought.
So along the highway is a light pole. What would they be, twenty or so inches
across the base?
So a semi runs off the road and smacks this light pole.
What happens?
Then the dept. of hiways goes and fixes this pole.
A short time later, a guy on a motorcycle hits this same pole.
What happens?
Just say'in...............
Well, let's say the semi weighs about 500 times what the bicycle and the rider weigh, and it is travelling at least four times as fast. Now, all you need to do is come up with a corresponding ratio of values for two bullets, and size of target, and you will have your answer.
It's about the same as comparing a 17 cal pellet at 600 fps with a 7500 gr bullet at 2400 fps being fired into a half inch dowel.
Ted
Actually, I think that is a pretty realistic test. If a bullet cannot get through brush well enough to hit a cardboard box, how can it be expected to get through the same brush to hit an animal in the vitals?
Ted
If you look back to my previous post where I brought up deflection I was referring to hitting a twig... Not shooting through a hedgemaze...
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
So you would be a one rifle hunter?
Another thoughtless comment
This is a GunNutz forum...where... most of us are gun NUTZ, as such we do own more than one gun, in fact you might be surprised that most of us likely own double or even triple digit numbers of guns!
But now were all hypocrites because we don't all use one particlular cartridge
Do you always have such a tough time telling hundreds how wrong they are & it's just you that's right
Another thoughtless comment
This is a GunNutz forum...where... most of us are gun NUTZ, as such we do own more than one gun, in fact you might be surprised that most of us likely own double or even triple digit numbers of guns!
But now were all hypocrites because we don't all use one particlular cartridge
Do you always have such a tough time telling hundreds how wrong they are & it's just you that's right
You can be nutz about one gun or you can be nutz about a hundred guns.... what would make one a hypocrite would be to poke fun at or cut down people who like "superuberlatestandgreatestmagnums" then go out and buy the "Superbuberlatestandgreatest" bullets in a vain attempt to try and keep pace with a 30-30......
This is a discussion forum.... believe it or not Senior, I have no personal issue with you.... we are all entitled to our opinion... Mine is that there are better choices out there for clsoe up, far away etc.... I prefer to carry a more versatile rifle when I hunt.... in any given situation... that is half the fun of hunting, you never know what to expect.... I like to be prepared...
Why participate in a thread asking about 30-30 then when someone comes in and doesn't particularly like them jump all over him asking why and talking a bunch of smack?.... At the end of teh day I am not a huge fan of the round and you aren't going to convince me otherwise... nor will I convince you... but we should at least both be entitled to have our opinions and our say without being attacked....
