Just looking for opinion, why people shoot what they do. I hunted archery for years, and was taught if you can't make a sure kill don't take the shot, which carried over to rifle, so I've never felt the need for a large caliber. My belief, minimum waste, place the shot with surgical precision. I am not a sniper, but I strive. 250 gr or 90 gr in the ear end result ?
Why the bullet size?
- Thread starter cmass
- Start date
Depends on the caliber & individual rifle.
Some cartridge/rifle combinations just work better with a particular type of bullet.
I've read of 7 X 57 mausers are very efficient with heavier bullets.
I'm a fan of 150 gr pills but I live in semi-arid desert; therefore a brush busting rifle / cartridge is mostly a waste of time.
For anyone to be of assistance to you ; we need more specific's.
Where, when, how far; even your intended style.
Tree stand, on foot, quad?
Plain, bush, 'skeg, river valley?
More info is req'd IMO
Some cartridge/rifle combinations just work better with a particular type of bullet.
I've read of 7 X 57 mausers are very efficient with heavier bullets.
I'm a fan of 150 gr pills but I live in semi-arid desert; therefore a brush busting rifle / cartridge is mostly a waste of time.
For anyone to be of assistance to you ; we need more specific's.
Where, when, how far; even your intended style.
Tree stand, on foot, quad?
Plain, bush, 'skeg, river valley?
More info is req'd IMO
I match the caliber and energy and construction of bullet to the size and makeup of the animal. Scatterguns for upland birds and waterfowl and rabbits. Rimfire for small game. 2506 with 75gr vmax for groundhogs and coyotes and 117gr interlock/sst or 120gr partitions for deer antelope wolf caribou and black bear. 180gr partition for moose and elk in 300wm and 405gr or 500gr bullets in my 4570 for bear and wild boar.
338gr bullet for all my muzzle loaders
I never aim for the head unless its a rabbit squirrel or varmint. I prefer a lung shot or a shoulder shot to anchor the game if the situation calls for it. The head is a small target that is usually always moving and can cause a glancing blow when struck by a bullet. I like enough gun and bullet the reach the vitals and penetrate thru the animal at a variety of angles and ranges. I don't like long pokes at big game. 300 yards is as far as I'm comfort
able shooting depending on wind.
Deer and antelope are thin skinned and require a softer bullet where as moose are heavier thicker and tougher requiring a heavier tougher bullet.
338gr bullet for all my muzzle loaders
I never aim for the head unless its a rabbit squirrel or varmint. I prefer a lung shot or a shoulder shot to anchor the game if the situation calls for it. The head is a small target that is usually always moving and can cause a glancing blow when struck by a bullet. I like enough gun and bullet the reach the vitals and penetrate thru the animal at a variety of angles and ranges. I don't like long pokes at big game. 300 yards is as far as I'm comfort
able shooting depending on wind.
Deer and antelope are thin skinned and require a softer bullet where as moose are heavier thicker and tougher requiring a heavier tougher bullet.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Part of being an ethical hunter is not to take low probability shots. You don't have to be off very much with a head shot to horribly wound the animal, that will then be able to run away unencumbered by the wound, and travel for some distance, never to be seen again. Therefore most hunters opt for s shoulder or lung shot, as these provide the largest target on an animal that might move at any moment. Typically game is shot from an estimated range where it is difficult to keep the bullet strike within several inches of the intended point of impact, rendering the head shot unreasonable except in special circumstances.
So we must first understand what the bullet does that kills the animal. The bullet first and foremost be able to penetrate deeply enough to damage the organs which sustain life by providing oxygenated blood to the brain. If the lungs, heart, liver, or major arteries are damaged, the animal dies a quick painless death. The speed by which the animal dies is determined by how quickly the blood supply is depleted. A big hole bleeds more freely than a small one. Thus a bullet with a large frontal area directly impacts more tissue than a bullet with a smaller frontal area does, so all things being equal the animal dies more quickly. Therefore we choose expanding bullets which dramatically increase in frontal area, damage more tissue as they pass through the animal, and ensured straight line penetration by moving the center of gravity to the front of the bullet. But the problem here is that as the bullet's frontal area increases, its penetration is decreased, so increasing weight is the surest way to ensure penetration. Increasing velocity creates faster and more explosive expansion which reduces penetration even more. Thus I prefer heavy for caliber, large caliber bullets, fired at a moderate velocity for big game. There are other points of view.
So we must first understand what the bullet does that kills the animal. The bullet first and foremost be able to penetrate deeply enough to damage the organs which sustain life by providing oxygenated blood to the brain. If the lungs, heart, liver, or major arteries are damaged, the animal dies a quick painless death. The speed by which the animal dies is determined by how quickly the blood supply is depleted. A big hole bleeds more freely than a small one. Thus a bullet with a large frontal area directly impacts more tissue than a bullet with a smaller frontal area does, so all things being equal the animal dies more quickly. Therefore we choose expanding bullets which dramatically increase in frontal area, damage more tissue as they pass through the animal, and ensured straight line penetration by moving the center of gravity to the front of the bullet. But the problem here is that as the bullet's frontal area increases, its penetration is decreased, so increasing weight is the surest way to ensure penetration. Increasing velocity creates faster and more explosive expansion which reduces penetration even more. Thus I prefer heavy for caliber, large caliber bullets, fired at a moderate velocity for big game. There are other points of view.
IF you wanted to take a shot at 300yards with a cross wind which might be more effective, 90 gr or 250 gr? If you were to only own one rifle (shudder) and bison, grizzly, ect might be on the list in the foreseeable future, might you not select a larger caliber?
A head shot can be made with pretty much any bullet. But any bullet may not be sufficient for every circumstance.
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you are talking about deer, being from southern MB and all. Deer are easy to kill. Other animals, under other hunting conditions, maybe not so much. A larger/heavier bullet gives you the edge when conditions are not ideal for "sniping".
Careful stepping off your soapbox. I would hate to see you turn your ankle you crazy archery ..er
.... sniper...guy.What's your idea of a large calibre?
Most of us get'r t done with anything between a 90gr .244 dia thru to 180 gr .308 dia (and several sizes in between).
Suka
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
For good reason, but I guess archers never miss their mark, and the target is always kind enough to not move and patiently await the strike, eh?
Personal preference. It's that simple. If you use a 338win for deer you get a bunch of guys saying that's too much. If you are using a .243 you get the same amount of guys saying that's inadequate. Size doesn't matter if you know how to use what you have.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
yep alot of guys into super fast .30's and even bigger meat damage is caused by the bullet velocity. for example the .300 winmag is a common round now for bigger game like moose it will cause a good bit of meat damage because of velocity these rounds use the jello afect to kill a hollowpoint or expanding round is almost pointless with this type of round . when say a round 9.3x57 have more of a brute force approch punching a hole and leaving it there it makes bleeding faster a .45-70 does the same but some people like to ramp things up
really grandpa used a .303 for everything including moose
really grandpa used a .303 for everything including moose
And some shoot bigger cartridges very accurately....the world is like that...people are all different....it seems to really scare some though.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I'm thinking the rifle had more to do with that than the caliber. Smaller calibers aren't necessarily more accurate, not sure where you're getting that misinformation. Choosing the largest caliber you can shoot well is never a bad idea. Choosing a small caliber and hoping for a perfect shot is often a very bad idea.
I blast all big game in Northern Saskatchewan with my .300 wsm, it does good up here. I was using a .270win for everything and it took deer, elk, moose hell even blasted yotes with it just decided I wanted to try the .300 wsm and fell in love with it. 150gr sierra is what I use for everything.
I use 30-06 165 or 180 grain. What you have described is fine and dandy but if I see the buck of a lifetime and he is is some thin brush or weeds or whatever or running wide open, I want to have something with some power to drop him, not the minimum required to kill a deer.
You can hunt deer with a 22LR if you just want some meat.
You can hunt deer with a 22LR if you just want some meat.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Head shots and I do not mix.
Not that I can't do them, I just feel the game I hunt deserves better than the chance of severe injury and lingering death offered by head shots.
Heads move, and they move quickly. Quick enough for you to blow the jaw off the animal you are trying to shoot in the ear.
It's not for me. End of lecture.
Not that I can't do them, I just feel the game I hunt deserves better than the chance of severe injury and lingering death offered by head shots.
Heads move, and they move quickly. Quick enough for you to blow the jaw off the animal you are trying to shoot in the ear.
It's not for me. End of lecture.
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If one of your goals is low waste, I'd suggest that bigger, but slower bullets are the way to go. If you do hit a heavier bone, say the shoulder, you'll get less damage from a slow large bullet than a 308 Win or faster, for example. I am currently shooting a .358 Win, and am very happy with all aspects of its performance, including low meat damage.
Agreed on the preference for chest shots: the small amount of error that results in a horrible non-fatal wound on a head shot still equals a perfect shot in the chest.
RG
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Agreed on the preference for chest shots: the small amount of error that results in a horrible non-fatal wound on a head shot still equals a perfect shot in the chest.
RG
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I'm one of those guys who now uses a 300WM for all big game including deer. An A-bolt. Out of all the rifles I have, it is my go to gun and I have the utmost in confidence in it. I've never noticed any more meat damage from it than any other rifle I've used. While I don't need the power it offers to knock a deer down, I've sure made good use of the extra range it provides.
