Wilderness carry permit for wife in Ontario

:) Perhaps that permit would be reasonable as my wife sometimes more dangerous than most of the bears usually.

Hey guys, this was interesting! :)
I just got off the phone with CFC (or I don't know. I was put through 3x somewhere)

The lady I ended up with was kind, but it seems this is not an everyday problem so she tried to made up rules on the fly. :)

There is another form or questionaire they send to the applicant normally after receiving the application. I asked her to send us the form before we send the application to see what's in there.

So I told her that my wife is an amateur photographer and she wants to take pictures of bears. And she doesn't want to carry a longgun for self protection.

So to sum up we ended up here: If my wife ever took nature pictures and she made enough money with them to support herself then it is OK, after she takes the wilderness carry course she can get the ATC permit. I asked how much money would satisfy this requiremet but we skipped this question. :)
Then I said that likely she would make a lot of money by selling the pictures to national geographic, but at first she has to get the permit, because obviously nobody goes into the deep wilderness without protection to photograph bears.
Going there, taking the pictures, making money, and when she is back home applying for protection doesn't really make sense.
Unfortunatelly English is not my first language, and actually I'm quite handicapped verbally in English, but in this case even the most sophisticated arguing wouldn't have helped - but we will get the additional questionaire soon and we will see what we have to do to satisfy the soft requirements. It seems that wilderness carry course is the only hard requirement. All the others are just flexible and soft things, subject to personal decision. It seems they don't really have any fixed policies on this. So it is not impossible, only not easy. You have to have a reason. "Just because" won't work. But after they receive a few good applications, obviously they will create a process for this kind of applicants, so we have to be careful what we send.
Now I'm trying to find something about this wilderness carry or what course.
 
You cannot carry a handgun in Ontario's bush, for any reason, unless you are a licenced professional trapper or prospector. And only then while actually working. If she has no hunting licence, she can't carry a firearm of any kind.
 
sunray said:
You cannot carry a handgun in Ontario's bush, for any reason, unless you are a licenced professional trapper or prospector. And only then while actually working. If she has no hunting licence, she can't carry a firearm of any kind.
Click to expand...

sunray your wrong there.... anybody can get a permit if thier job requires them to be in the bush. Timber Cruiser, Seismic , and a whole bunch of other reasons..... INCLUDING I expect wilderness photographer if she can prove that a signifigant protion of her income comes from selling wildlife photos.
 
"...if their job requires them to be in the bush..." Maybe in B.C., but not in Ontario, Professional trappers and prospectors while working only last I saw.
No restricted firearms of any kind can be used for or carried while hunting here. If you're in the bush with a firearm you are assumed to be hunting if and when you get stopped by a CO(and they come out of tree bark here). No hunting licence for whatever is in season gets you arrested, have all your kit, including your vehicle, confiscated and can get time as a guest in one of Her Majesty's Prisons plus a huge fine.
 
thats why i always have atleast a small game tag when i go into the bush cause ground hogs and coyotes are open all year round
 
Rudi said:
:) Perhaps that permit would be reasonable as my wife sometimes more dangerous than most of the bears usually.

Hey guys, this was interesting! :)
I just got off the phone with CFC (or I don't know. I was put through 3x somewhere)

The lady I ended up with was kind, but it seems this is not an everyday problem so she tried to made up rules on the fly. :)

There is another form or questionaire they send to the applicant normally after receiving the application. I asked her to send us the form before we send the application to see what's in there.

So I told her that my wife is an amateur photographer and she wants to take pictures of bears. And she doesn't want to carry a longgun for self protection.

So to sum up we ended up here: If my wife ever took nature pictures and she made enough money with them to support herself then it is OK, after she takes the wilderness carry course she can get the ATC permit. I asked how much money would satisfy this requiremet but we skipped this question. :)
Then I said that likely she would make a lot of money by selling the pictures to national geographic, but at first she has to get the permit, because obviously nobody goes into the deep wilderness without protection to photograph bears.
Going there, taking the pictures, making money, and when she is back home applying for protection doesn't really make sense.
Unfortunatelly English is not my first language, and actually I'm quite handicapped verbally in English, but in this case even the most sophisticated arguing wouldn't have helped - but we will get the additional questionaire soon and we will see what we have to do to satisfy the soft requirements. It seems that wilderness carry course is the only hard requirement. All the others are just flexible and soft things, subject to personal decision. It seems they don't really have any fixed policies on this. So it is not impossible, only not easy. You have to have a reason. "Just because" won't work. But after they receive a few good applications, obviously they will create a process for this kind of applicants, so we have to be careful what we send.
Now I'm trying to find something about this wilderness carry or what course.
Click to expand...
there is no set declaration for how much money you must make in order to get an ATC for protection while photgraphing bears
have your wife go down to your local city hall and register a business name as a sole proprietership with your business being wildlife photography once this name has been registered usualy instant as long as the name you intend to use isnt being used by someone else then you are for all intents and purposes self employed as a wildlife photographer. at htis point if your wife has her restricted PAL and an ATT to your local range there should be very few problems in getting an ATC for protection in the course of her employment of course this does not garuntee her an ATC but it does make it much easier to challenge the need for one in court should you so choose to go that root if she is denied an ATC
keep in mind she can ONLY carry for the purpose of doing her job which means if you take her hunting and she is not doing her job basicly if she is not carrying ALL of her camera gear and is carrying a long gun*you may need to have a contract written up like an invoice * she can and WILL be charge for illegal carry
 
Last edited:
Gunslinger said:
This is a good idea. Signguy seems to be accident prone, maybe CGN should sponsor him, a bear mauling to him would be a walk in the park, and with his recent leg injury he can't run fast so the probability of success for the bear is good.:p
Click to expand...

I can vouch for that.. I was there for that.. 12ga. mishap.
 
If you are carrying a handgun under the authority of an ATT for self protection, how can you be considered to be hunting?
Why would amateur photographers be denied the opportunity for self protection while it may be available to professional photographers? Oh, that's right, the studies conducted by the CFC suggest that bears never attack amateurs, but may attack professionals.
Let's face it - the only governing factor is that it does not matter what the law says, the CFC simply does not want to issue these ATTs.
 
I know of many people who have WCP's in Ontario who have jobs or work in the bush. Equipment operators, Geologists, Surveyors, Outfitters, Guides, there is no list limiting the type of job.
Not while hunting though!
 
The gray areas in the law are really bad. They much worse then a bad law. With a clear law you can agree or disagree, keep it or break it. This kind of jurisdiction is just frusrating.
My wife is right-handed, but the left is her master eye. Have you ever seen a person like this shooting with a longgun? They are leaning over the stock and it takes minutes to aim. That's OK to hunt, (at least for 1 shot, as no teeth left after that.) but not in a self defense situation.

She want's to be a professional bear photographer. (Would making at least 1 dollar satisfy the criteria of "professional"? Or how much??) Obviously nobody is crazy to search for bears without any protection especially as they are documentedly getting more aggressive recently. If she can't get the ATC, that decision would in fact mean that the CFO barred her being an enterpreneur (right spelling: entrepreneur) in a field she feels talented and take away her chance to make money to support herself and her (our) daughter. This decision makes her (them) depend on me, which is degrading for a modern woman.

Otherwise: interestingly there would be no problem with carrying a longgun for self-defense. (after taking the hunter safety course) Why carrying a handgun in the wilderness is more dangerous/socially less responsible/morally more negative than carrying a longgun with no intent to use it? (handgun for hunting is bad, I can agree, even if it is not necessarily true)
Would some of you ask this questions from the person who issues the ATCs? (If I called them every day then only I would be an unruly person. If more people asks them then this problem would get their attention.)

Next week we will get the questionnaire. I will see what's in it. If it doesn't require really too much effort to satisfy that requirements, we will submit the application. It seems they will reject it. What's next?? Where can we appeal? Court?
 
Quote from PrairieMedic's letter from the above thread:
Every application for an A TC requires the information noted below:
bla
bla
bla...

Interesting enough, taking the Wilderness Carry Course is not mentioned as a requirement.. ???

So is it required or not?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom