Wildlife Management Forum

[sheephunter]

but please explain to me why, as to your negitive posts, are you trying to stop the exchange of information by other interested helpful parties.

I'm not sure I'd call my posts negative...I was just trying to get some clarification.

In the Quality Deer Management Association's own mission statement, they state.....Promoting ethical hunting, sound deer management, and the preservation of our deer-hunting heritage.


There is no mention of wildlife management which is what this thread is titled and there is no mention of improving habitat which food plots are definitely not, yet that phrase has been liberally bandied about here. Let's call it what it is......The planting of food plots is neither habitat improvement nor is it wildlife management. I honestly don't know anything about the association, certainly not enough to form an opinion but I do have an extensive background in wildlife management and habitat conservation and restoration and food plots don't fit into either. Let's not try to make this more than it is.......

 

[C Broad Arrow]

Sure it can.....higher densities increase the likelyhood of many diseases in ungulates and foodplots increase deer densities, pretty easy to make the connection. I never once insinuated that food plots are the cause of CWD but they certainly have the ability to spread it by increasing deer densities on a food source.

Yes you did insinuate it and imply it. But there is no scientific evidence that it leads to the spread of CWD. In addition, food plot is a very broad term. A field of corn or barely can be considered food plots.

Of greater issue is the practice of baiting. There you have real concentration of deer in proximity to one another as they sharre a food trough, bucket or ground pile. Food plots, meadows etc. tend to have the food dispersed throughout (except where you have a wagon spill or overflow from transfering to other equipment during the harvest) so you do not get deer coming in as close prominity to one another.

Which may indeed aid in deer development but at what cost to other wildlife, plant communities, insects, water quality and so on. Nothing is for free.

Well our friends at PETA would support your argument as they make their case to ban hunting in general. However, the goal is a balanced habitat. Deer eat a very wide variety of browse - I read a study done here in Ontario and there were almost 700 different types of plants, shrubs etc they are known to eat.

When you seek to restore the habitat you try to provide as wide a diversity of "new" native browse as possible. This allows others that might have been over-browsed to come back and regenerate. This gives us a greater "biodiversity" in the plant life and as a result leads to actually enhancing the habitat for wider variety of animals and birds. That is why other wildlife conservation groups support the QDMA.

Your comment "nothing is for free" is absolutely dead nuts accurate. Nothing is for free and the sooner we as hunters begin to realize that there is always a prices to pay, that wildlife is a valuable resourse, that by putting back a little bit into the land, the better our sport and the wildlife (not necessarily in that order) will be.

 

[sheephunter]

Okay, I went to the site, btw the link you posted is wrong...it's qdmacanada.com but I still saw no reference to Alberta. I didn't take time to read every page so perhaps you could save me some time and point out where on there it gives information that Alberta is way ahead on this. I saw lots of reference to South Carolina and Quebec but that was it.

 

[sheephunter]

Yes you did insinuate it and imply it. But there is no scientific evidence that it leads to the spread of CWD. In addition, food plot is a very broad term. A field of corn or barely can be considered food plots.

Of greater issue is the practice of baiting. There you have real concentration of deer in proximity to one another as they sharre a food trough, bucket or ground pile. Food plots, meadows etc. tend to have the food dispersed throughout (except where you have a wagon spill or overflow from transfering to other equipment during the harvest) so you do not get deer coming in as close prominity to one another.






Well our friends at PETA would support your argument as they make their case to ban hunting in general. However, the goal is a balanced habitat. Deer eat a very wide variety of browse - I read a study done here in Ontario and there were almost 700 different types of plants, shrubs etc they are known to eat.

When you seek to restore the habitat you try to provide as wide a diversity of "new" native browse as possible. This allows others that might have been over-browsed to come back and regenerate. This gives us a greater "biodiversity" in the plant life and as a result leads to actually enhancing the habitat for wider variety of animals and birds. That is why other wildlife conservation groups support the QDMA.

Your comment "nothing is for free" is absolutely dead nuts accurate. Nothing is for free and the sooner we as hunters begin to realize that there is always a prices to pay, that wildlife is a valuable resourse, that by putting back a little bit into the land, the better our sport and the wildlife (not necessarily in that order) will be.

Please don't insult me by telling me what I implied or insinuated as I know what I meant and I don't insinuate or imply, I say it as it is. I never insuated that food plots are responsible for CWD I said they can aid in it and other diseases spread. There's lots of scientific evidence to support that concentrating deer on a food sourse does propegate the spread of disease. Hope that was clear enough.

As for your little stroll down the path of Reductum Ad Absurdum, comparing farmer's fields to food plots is ludicrous. Farmers fields are a necessity of life, perhaps an evil one but if you and I want to eat, they are a fact of life. Food plots are not a necessity of life for humans or wildlife.

Your PETA reference was so original....you are running out of logical comments so let's link old Sheep to the anti hunters.

I fail to see how clover and alfalfa are native food sources for whitetails. Deer will eat marijuana plants quite happily to but I don't see planting them as habitat improvement. I'm not pro or anti qdma as I know nothing about it but to say that planting food plots is restoring habitat and wildlife management is just plain false. Right or wrong, qdma is a single species management group. Just look at who its sponsors are and try to tell me that planting native vegitation is a big part of its mandate. Tame crops are no replacement for lost habitat.

My posts are most definitely not an attack on the qdma so please don't take it in that direction. My posts take issue with phrases likie "habitat improvement" and "wildlife management" being used in conjunction with the planting of food plots!

I'm just curious what conservation groups support qdma?

I'm also still very curious how Alberta is ahead in the planting of food plots?

 

[sealhunter]

I believe that food plots and non native species of grasses and such are like opening Pandora's Box.

I would not support and do not support any type of game farming.

Trouble, trouble, trouble,...

Food plots may not have a causality relationship with CWD (cause and effect) that we know of. However, the environment created (unnatural) increases the opportunity for transmission.

No no no no no never ever ever, no.....

 

[trevj]

I too, would rather see some examples put forth of what, exactly, Alberta is "doing" that makes them such as to be touted as an example.

Cut lines as a improvement to wildlife habitat? Oil well drill pads?

They make access into some tough country, a whole lot easier....

Sounds to me more like someone has been drinking the Kool-aid of "change". Really.

Examples. Specific ones, please, not instructions to go find it on yet another forum.

Every example of "quality" habitat management I have seen to date was either someone spending other peoples money, or an absolute effort to improve the hunting in an area. Running around introducing non-native species is hardy "improving" nature. If you want to do that, plow it, plant it, and make a living off it.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

Please don't insult me by telling me what I implied or insinuated as I know what I meant and I don't insinuate or imply, I say it as it is. I never insuated that food plots are responsible for CWD I said they can aid in it and other diseases spread. There's lots of scientific evidence to support that concentrating deer on a food sourse does propegate the spread of disease. Hope that was clear enough.

As for your little stroll down the path of Reductum Ad Absurdum, comparing farmer's fields to food plots is ludicrous. Farmers fields are a necessity of life, perhaps an evil one but if you and I want to eat, they are a fact of life. Food plots are not a necessity of life for humans or wildlife.

Your PETA reference was so original....you are running out of logical comments so let's link old Sheep to the anti hunters.

I fail to see how clover and alfalfa are native food sources for whitetails. Deer will eat marijuana plants quite happily to but I don't see planting them as habitat improvement. I'm not pro or anti qdma as I know nothing about it but to say that planting food plots is restoring habitat and wildlife management is just plain false. Right or wrong, qdma is a single species management group. Just look at who its sponsors are and try to tell me that planting native vegitation is a big part of its mandate. Tame crops are no replacement for lost habitat.

My posts are most definitely not an attack on the qdma so please don't take it in that direction. My posts take issue with phrases likie "habitat improvement" and "wildlife management" being used in conjunction with the planting of food plots!

I'm just curious what conservation groups support qdma?

I'm also still very curious how Alberta is ahead in the planting of food plots?

Once again go back and read this time with your eyes open and look under deer management land you will find the prov's

 

[beefman]

I don't really know what to think of this QDMA. From the shows I seen in the US, it involves mostly city folks with no background in farming, crop production/rotation etc.
It uses products (seed) that is WAY (4X) overpriced because it has a picture of a big buck on it. Products that if not planted properly (seed depth, soil temp.,soil condition) will see little to no growth.
Products that require the use and application of herbicides and fertilizer.

My summation of this is: A group of people who love deer hunting, have extra $$$ that they don't mind putting towards their passion.
They like to talk to other people about deer and deer hunting. They think that their little food plot will produce the next B&C buck
(even though they are surrounded by thousands of acres of corn, soybeans, and clover/alfalfa fields).

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

I too, would rather see some examples put forth of what, exactly, Alberta is "doing" that makes them such as to be touted as an example.

Cut lines as a improvement to wildlife habitat? Oil well drill pads?

They make access into some tough country, a whole lot easier....

Sounds to me more like someone has been drinking the Kool-aid of "change". Really.

Examples. Specific ones, please, not instructions to go find it on yet another forum.

Every example of "quality" habitat management I have seen to date was either someone spending other peoples money, or an absolute effort to improve the hunting in an area. Running around introducing non-native species is hardy "improving" nature. If you want to do that, plow it, plant it, and make a living off it.

Cheers
Trev

Fair enough! lets put high fences around all farms and lets see what's left in the bush for the wild life in most areas,lets watch the numbers drop, and listen you guys whine later

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

I don't really know what to think of this QDMA. From the shows I seen in the US, it involves mostly city folks with no background in farming, crop production/rotation etc.
It uses products (seed) that is WAY (4X) overpriced because it has a picture of a big buck on it. Products that if not planted properly (seed depth, soil temp.,soil condition) will see little to no growth.
Products that require the use and application of herbicides and fertilizer.

My summation of this is: A group of people who love deer hunting, have extra $$$ that they don't mind putting towards their passion.
They like to talk to other people about deer and deer hunting. They think that their little food plot will produce the next B&C buck
(even though they are surrounded by thousands of acres of corn, soybeans, and clover/alfalfa fields).

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Their path may not be correct for most, but the idea in general of helping is what this thread was started for.

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

I too, would rather see some examples put forth of what, exactly, Alberta is "doing" that makes them such as to be touted as an example.

Cut lines as a improvement to wildlife habitat? Oil well drill pads?

They make access into some tough country, a whole lot easier....

Sounds to me more like someone has been drinking the Kool-aid of "change". Really.

Examples. Specific ones, please, not instructions to go find it on yet another forum.

Every example of "quality" habitat management I have seen to date was either someone spending other peoples money, or an absolute effort to improve the hunting in an area. Running around introducing non-native species is hardy "improving" nature. If you want to do that, plow it, plant it, and make a living off it.

Cheers
Trev

Why is it, that someone always has to cut and paste and hold some one's hand, find it yourself and maybe you might read something else along the way

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

I'm not sure I'd call my posts negative...I was just trying to get some clarification.

In the Quality Deer Management Association's own mission statement, they state.....Promoting ethical hunting, sound deer management, and the preservation of our deer-hunting heritage.


There is no mention of wildlife management which is what this thread is titled and there is no mention of improving habitat which food plots are definitely not, yet that phrase has been liberally bandied about here. Let's call it what it is......The planting of food plots is neither habitat improvement nor is it wildlife management. I honestly don't know anything about the association, certainly not enough to form an opinion but I do have an extensive background in wildlife management and habitat conservation and restoration and food plots don't fit into either. Let's not try to make this more than it is.......

So Sheep, please tell us about your extensive professional creditals on Wildlife Management,conservation and restoration employment??

I would also like to know how much land you own and what you are doing with it?

I know this you got enough land to put that soap box on! I wish you would stop baiting the others here so we could get back on topic here, which is not weather you agree or not, it's about is there people who wish to exchange info and idea's. You want to troll going f'n fishing

 

[sheephunter]

So Sheep, please tell us about your extensive professional creditals on Wildlife Management,conservation and restoration employment??

I would also like to know how much land you own and what you are doing with it?

I know this you got enough land to put that soap box on! I wish you would stop baiting the others here so we could get back on topic here, which is not weather you agree or not, it's about is there people who wish to exchange info and idea's. You want to troll going f'n fishing

I actually do contract work in the field of habitat management and restoration.....

As far as how much land I own...just the kentucky blue grass my house sits on and I'd never call that tame crop habitat despite the fact that I routinely see rabbits and deer eating it.

Sorry you feel that bringing contrary info to a messageboard is baiting and trolling...I just look at it as sharing information....something that seems very dear to you. You throw facts out on a messageboard, you better be ready to back them up. So far I haven't seen much but name calling. If you want to share info, let's share it and stop the name calling....

People intelligently and rationally presenting opposing points of view is the foundation of information sharing. So let's share some info.

 

[sheephunter]

Once again go back and read this time with your eyes open and look under deer management land you will find the prov's

No need to get snarky, I couldn't find it.

All that is there is the provincial deer management plan produced by the government...not qdma. They have a plan for every species. There is nothing in that plan about food plots.

 

[trevj]

Why is it, that someone always has to cut and paste and hold some one's hand, find it yourself and maybe you might read something else along the way

Because you raised the point, you are on your own to support it. You said that Alberta is one of the examples, but cannot produce a cite. Nice! Well, useless actually. It makes you look like a dreamer, who knows less about what he's talking about, than he would like everyone to believe.

I'm not interested in wading through all that, on another forum, if that is where you and your like minds hang out.

Really, it's not hand holding. I'm asking you to put up or shut up. Either would be good.

Oh. My point of reference is the 1500 acres of BC interior that my family has owned for three generations, and which I grew up upon. What has been good for the land, has been good for us. But it's not prairie grain mono culture either.

Cheers
Trev

 

[sealhunter]

Well I know little to nothing about the different food plots, peoples motivations for such, etc etc.

What I do know about is disease transmission, population density and it's relationship to disease, the emergence of new diseases and problem issues from population density, from the introduction of non native species, and from the interaction of non native and native species, from farmed animals and wild animals.

Dual Habitats, reserve/refuge land and conservation allows for the benefits you wish to see, but does it naturally.

 

[7mm-08]

how about going out and hunting your game instead of farming it?

I am talking utilizing 80 acres of bush on my 160 acres most of it is bush,to make it more huntable for myself and family.Through dozing some trails as well as shooting lanes,and putting up some treestands.
The soil in my area is less than desirable for any kind of plots,which I have no intentions of pursueing.(rice pattys would probably work best there though)
To the north,west,and east of me is grass,hay,alphalfa mixed,to the south a cattle pasture (more like swamp with some ridges running through it).
I have the 1/4 with the big bush.It is very much used by the deer,elk but very,very difficult to hunt due to how thick it is.
Reading some of the U.S. forums talked about how to get the best out of your land.Not through food plots but more so conservative bush clearing.

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

Making trails help, and also busting trails in the snow to help them too. Leaving shrub from clearing also helps rabbits, and such for homes and protection. Water drainage is also inportant if you can do it. Lots of shallow water and ice is not good if it's in the path of travel in early winter, my way many this year are injuried by breaking through the ice and are cut up very bad, most will not make it.

 

[Canadian Bush Wacker]

Does any one have a connection for turnips seeds in bulk?

 

[Cowboy]

If you have a 1/4 of solid bush whatever you do will be an improvment for wildlife. Cutting lanes or spraying by hand with a 24D type spray and then dragging the dead trees/bush etc out the following year is good. Make your patches small and irregular is also best. Peas is another crop that deer truly love. They will spend alot of time digging up the trash after its been worked down.

I think a forum to share ideas on improving habitat is great-----Cowboy