Wilson Combat VS 870 Police...

You're jumping on every 870P thread you read, including this one which is 2 1/2 years old. You're baiting guys into questioning your statements so you can portray yourself as someone with a higher knowledge or some sort of "insider" info. What concerns you so much about how people spend their money?

:feedTroll:
 
I'm jumping on any thread I like and so can anybody else. This is the very nature of the discussion forum like this one. Was any information that I did provided you with not true? No. I backed each and every statement that I made with the hard evidence and people standing behind it. You didn't like that either. Fine.
I directed all that were interested to some useful links and tips on how to fix issues with 870 ...which I'll be always happy to do all over again. Well, how is that even slightly connected with any judging of your spending habits? I guess only you know the answer to this question, since you feel so offended each and every time you are facing the facts that I'm posting. Not even once I questioned your spending habits. Can you stop focusing on personal attacks and start discussing the facts? If you don't going to challenge the facts, I'm not interested in the name calling race with you.
 
Nestor said:
Actually just to let you know Guys, there is no price difference between Express and Police receiver according to Remington parts catalog.
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Geez, man.

Your paying for the labour... The express takes less time to produce in compareson to the Wingmaster and Police.

And your just regurgitating info from an other forum anyways...
 
Also, the trigger guard assembly used to be made out of aluminum on the Police models. Lately it was just pressed metal of some sort. While aesthetically pleasing it is actually less durable than the synthetic one.
 
Nestor said:
I'm jumping on any thread I like and so can anybody else. This is the very nature of the discussion forum like this one. Was any information that I did provided you with not true? No. I backed each and every statement that I made with the hard evidence and people standing behind it. You didn't like that either. Fine.
I directed all that were interested to some useful links and tips on how to fix issues with 870 ...which I'll be always happy to do all over again. Well, how is that even slightly connected with any judging of your spending habits? I guess only you know the answer to this question, since you feel so offended each and every time you are facing the facts. Can you stop focusing on personal attacks and start discussing the facts? If you don't going to challenge the facts, I'm not interested in the name calling race with you.
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OK, fair enough. In regard to this thread, do you own a Wilson Combat, an 870P and an Express? I do, as mentioned in the thread on Wanstall's dealer forum. What I can tell you (again) from personal experience is that there is a difference. I'm not disputing the fact the raw receiver is quite possibly the same, but to claim that the WC and 870P uses the exact same as the Express except for coating (Armor-Tuff,Parked,etc) is something I've found to be incorrect. The insides are smoother and free of any burrs or machining marks. Also, while the barrel from the WC may be originally from an Express, the chamber is very smooth as is the rest of the length, there's no comparison to the Express nor the Police for that matter. An yes, the 870P has better fit/finish than my Express.

No one is disputing the fact all 870 receivers come off the same forge, but why is it impossible that the ones destined for pricier guns receive extra care, like polishing and deburring? As an analogy, just because several gunsmiths use a Rem 700 SPS action as their choice for a custom build, it doesn't mean you're getting an untouched factory 700 SPS action on your new gun.
 
BeaverMeat said:
Geez, man.

Your paying for the labour... The express takes less time to produce in compareson to the Wingmaster and Police.

And your just regurgitating info from an other forum anyways...
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You mean there are more people out there who are not buying Remington marketing hype? Well... I think it's fine since we also have a large group of members here who are constantly just copying and pasting outdated Remington commercials.
 
bearkilr said:
OK, fair enough. In regard to this thread, do you own a Wilson Combat and an 870P? I do, as mentioned in the thread on Wanstall's dealer forum. What I can tell you (again) from personal experience is that there is a difference. I'm not disputing the fact the raw receiver is quite possibly the same, but to claim that the WC and 870P uses the exact same as the Express except for paint (Armor-Tuff,Parked,etc) is something I've found to be incorrect. The insides are smoother and free of any burrs or machining marks. Also, while the barrel from the WC may be originally from an Express, the chamber is very smooth as is the rest of the length, there's no comparison to the Express nor the Police for that matter. An yes, the 870P has better fit/finish than my Express.

No one is disputing the fact all 870 receivers come off the same forge, but why is it impossible that the ones destined for pricier guns receive extra care, like polishing and deburring? As an analogy, just because several gunsmiths use a Rem 700 SPS action as their choice for a custom build, it doesn't mean you're getting an untouched factory 700 SPS action on your new gun.
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I admitted couple of times that any Police model is actually a better gun than any Express. There should be $200 price difference between them since Police has about $30 in better quality parts over Express and better finish as well. No doubt about it. What I'm questionning however is the fact that Remington is charging the clients far more than $200 for Police in situation when you can build Police shotgun using the parts from Remington factory catalog for the very same or similar price to Express. If they charging the same for all the parts it simply means that their manufacturing cost of these parts are all very similar. I'm not saying "Don't buy it". I'm saying "Make an educated decision". I don't own Wilson, but I had a pleasure to play with one. Very nice indeed. Worth the price? Again, it's up to the buyer to decide.
 
Nestor said:
I admitted couple of times that any Police model is actually a better gun than any Express. There should be $200 price difference between them since Police has about $30 in better quality parts over Express and better finish as well. No doubt about it. What I'm questionning however is the fact that Remington is charging the clients far more than $200 for Police in situation when you can build Police shotgun using the parts from Remington factory catalog for the very same or similar price to Express. If they charging the same for all the parts it simply means that their manufacturing cost of these parts are all very similar. I'm not saying "Don't buy it". I'm saying "Make an educated decision". I don't own Wilson, but I had a pleasure to play with one. Very nice indeed. Worth the price? Again, it's up to the buyer to decide.
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http://www.p-d-ent.com/index.php/firearms/16-shotguns
49002 Remington 870 Express Tactical, Blued/Synthetic, 18" 12 ga. 3" 490.00 NEW
45901 Remington 870 Police, Parkerized/Synthetic, Rifle Sights, R3 Pad, 18" 12 ga. 3" 690.00 NEW

And you can't build any gun from parts as cheap as it comes assembled. And it doesn't mean the manufacturing costs are identical. A Marine Mag receiver costs the same as an Express receiver. One is electroless nickel plated, the other has the cheapest matte rough bluing available. Neither you nor I know how Remington comes up with their prices but fact is the nickel plating is a more involved and expensive process. I've had it done at an Aerospace company on shotgun parts.
 
Nestor said:
You mean there are more people out there who are not buying Remington marketing hype? Well... I think it's fine since we also have a large group of members here who are constantly just copying and pasting outdated Remington commercials.
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I like your "reciver is the same price" argument. By your logic a Cadillac SRX should cost the same as a Chevy Eqinox because they share the same drivetrain and are both based on the Theta platform. Add up the combined costs of each individual part listed in the parts catalogue to build a 870 from the ground up. I bet the total will be twice the retail of a 870P.

Check & mate.
 
Well, prices are out there to check. We are not talking the receiver only. Every, single part, except for the barrels (and only when we are talking some upgraded sights), are literally priced the same or within 2-5 dollar range. There is maybe $30-40 difference between the complete Police and Express according to Remington factory catalog (springs and extractor). In fact you can sometimes build Police cheaper than exact same Express if you are willing to go with less popular configuration. How is that for an argument?
 
Nestor said:
Well, prices are out there to check. We are not talking the receiver only. Every, single part, except for the barrels (and only when we are talking some upgraded sights), are literally priced the same or within 2-5 dollar range. There is maybe $30-40 difference between the complete Police and Express according to Remington factory catalog (springs and extractor). In fact you can sometimes build Police cheaper than exact same Express if you are willing to go with less popular configuration. How is that for an argument?
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LOL, I don't think too many of sound mind build a gun from parts obtained from the factory. If that's the case, my JD tractor is worth right around $1M.
 
bearkilr said:
http://www.p-d-ent.com/index.php/firearms/16-shotguns
49002 Remington 870 Express Tactical, Blued/Synthetic, 18" 12 ga. 3" 490.00 NEW
45901 Remington 870 Police, Parkerized/Synthetic, Rifle Sights, R3 Pad, 18" 12 ga. 3" 690.00 NEW

And you can't build any gun from parts as cheap as it comes assembled. And it doesn't mean the manufacturing costs are identical. A Marine Mag receiver costs the same as an Express receiver. One is electroless nickel plated, the other has the cheapest matte rough bluing available. Neither you nor I know how Remington comes up with their prices but fact is the nickel plating is a more involved and expensive process. I've had it done at an Aerospace company on shotgun parts.
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...and you must be congratulated on finding the only fair deal around on 870P. The rest however is priced much different and we both know that too.
Now, we don't know how they came up with the price, but what we know is that the finish that was applied will not make any part better. More rust proof? Most likely. Better? Not. It's all about quality of steel and heat treatment process...and all these parts are going thru the same process till they hit the finish stage. Marine Magnum while sounds pretty cool is still the very same Express. What you paid for one shotgun and custom finish may not reflect on the manufacturing cost for giant like Remington who makes thousands of firearms each day. It's going to be much, much cheaper for them to apply such finish on industrial like scale.
 
bearkilr said:
LOL, I don't think too many of sound mind build a gun from parts obtained from the factory. If that's the case, my JD tractor is worth right around $1M.
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Official Remington dealers do, but with dealer's discount. I'll be more than happy to patch you up with one. You can ask him these questions I bet.
 
Nestor said:
Official Remington dealers do, but with dealer's discount. I'll be more than happy to patch you up with one. You can ask him these questions I bet.
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It boils down to what each individual is willing to pay. I don't think a WC is worth the current $1500+, but I paid right at $1000 for a slightly used one and I don't think it's possible to have the same gun made for much, if any, less. No doubt you're paying for the name, just like with the "Police" stamped on the receiver, but it's a different animal altogether than any factory 870 I've owned. Maybe I could save $100 by sourcing the parts myself and sending an Express off to a Cdn 'builder', but quite frankly, the time and effort isn't worth it. We squabble back and forth to save $100 when all it gets you these days is a tank of gas that may last a few days.
 
The only question I have is why a thread that has been dead since 2013 was "bumped" for no particular reason as no contribution to the thread was made.
 
It was my error....I made a post but then saw I had said the same thing in 2013...but I have been known to post in necrothreads just because they had a lot of interesting stuff in them.
 
The Police models come with a nice soft butt pad and improved cylinder. The wilsons have a hard butt pad and just a cylinder bore. For the price the wilsons are not as nice imo, as ive owned both.
The wilsons have a different sling attachment as well, so you will need a VCAS or something as it doesn't have the traditional swivel on the front end. Guess you could change it out. But that was something I hated as I got nothing in this town for gun parts and have access to only traditional slings at Canadian Tire lol.

You are certainly paying for the Wilson name more so then anything else. Don't get me wrong its a nice gun and very smooth just not 1500 dollar nice. That being said the 870Pmax comes with all the bells and whistles plus a surefire front end for the same price.

I did find my 870P max was a little picky with hornady zombie ammo but loved the federal stuff, but to be honest I didn't shoot either of the guns enough to comment on that. I ended up selling them off as I needed the cash.

The nicest one I owned was a 870P with wood furniture, extended magazine. Was much nicer then the Wilson.
 
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