Win 1895 in 30-40 Krag

[pukakoe]

Hey,

Wondering can give a rough evaluation of a Win 1895 sporting rifle in 30-40 Krag?
Manufacture is between 1898 and 1904, it has wear marks that I would expect for this age. It looks like it's been drilled and tapped for a side mount scope.

Thanks for the help.

-Geoff

 

[dan belisle]

Drilled and tapped makes it a shooter, $600 or so with a good bore. - dan

 

[bjsgear]

1895

i paid $1000 for mine but it was in 35 win,a rare caliber. the 303br and krags go for $500 to $600 in good condition,bryan.

 

[Mike Webb]

Nice gun, but the D&T is a killer. I would say $400 as a shooter if the bore is good. At least in my neck of the woods. It may have been drilled and tapped for the old Climbin' Lyman peep sight, if so it may have even been done at the factory. A Winchester expert could tell you if the distance between hole centers jives with the Lyman sight, if so it may be worth a factory letter.

 

[Matt74]

Don't believe it was drilled and tapped at the factory as it appears the rear screw hole for the Lyman receiver sight interferes with the factory stamped address; something Winchester never did. $400 to $600 range likely, again depends on the condition of the bore / throat. One will find that the records at Cody do not always mention special sights, so don't take them at gospel. A good, studied eye also goes a long way.
Cheers,
Matt

 

[H4831]

In such discussions as this about old rifles, in particular old Winchesters, it is always classified as having collector value, or no collector value, thus a shooter. There is a middle class.
Mighty few old Winchesters out in the hinterlands that are sittting around in someones closet, will meet the critoria as being desireable, for a genuine, fussy Winchester collector. However, there are a lot of people out there who would like the prestige of having a late 1800s or early 1900s good Winchester rifle in their locker. It matters little to them whether or not there are extra drilled and tapped holes in it, or whether someone has made a good job of refinishing the stock.
These people will pay a premium for the old Winchester, over and above its value as a shooter of that calibre.

 

[Rod]

A rifle is worth what it will sell for in a free market of supply and demand. An 1895 Winchester in 30 US Caliber is a popular choice for that rifle.

Most recognized is the NRA Grading System from NIB to Poor and suggest a firearm that has had altering modifications, that are not factory, reduces the firearm to the . . "Fair Condition". . for pricing. Schwings' book, from year 2000, suggests a price of $700 for a fair condition classification. Therefore; to bring this price current, factor in a 10 year price increase, state of the economy and the demand for this time of the year.

Another consideration is most 1895's manufactured went to the Russians, during WW 1, leaving them quite rare as compared to other Winchester lever actions. This is why the prices are higher for an 1895. . . Winchester had high hopes of supplying the US Army with this 1895 Rifle in 30 US Cal., but the rifle was not well received from experiences in the Phillipines. The Army Ordinance department claimed it was clumbsy to load under fire. By the time Winchester figured out stripper clip loading, the thumbs were already pointing down, leaving Winchester with a great little rifle and no market other than domestic. So, when WW 1 came around and the Russians were desperate for rifles, Winchester cut a deal using their surplus of 1895 parts and tooling. Great deal for Winchester at the time.

I would suggest to make a professional job of finding or making some threaded plugs, similar to normal scope mount plugs, for the side-mount receiver sight holes. If the rifle has a clean appearance, with no other deficiencies, and the bore is in good shape with decent rifling and no ugly pitting, the headspace is acceptable, the action functions properly and the wood is decent; I would list it for $850.

On a further note, the 1895 Winchester has a reputation for accessive headspace. The 30 US Cal. (30-40) is not as prone as the 30 gov't 06, but is a problem with some well used rifles. A quick way to check for excessive headspace is to fire a round and check the spent primer. With excessive headspace, the primer will have backed out of the primer pocket. A little bit is acceptable, with 1895, but some get so bad the cartridge won't stand up straight when set upright on a flat surface. I would suggest taking a photo of a spent cartridge primer and include it with your listing pictures. If the headspace is not an issue it'll help you to sell it quicker and for a better price.

I have a 1895 Winchester, from 1902, in 30 US Cal that is in very good original condition and I would value it at a minium of $1200 - $1500.

 

[Mike Webb]

I suspect at those prices the 95's would be for sale for a considerable time. In my experience 95's do not command the prices of even an 1894 in comparable condition. Only in .405 cal. and to a lesser degree the .35 Win. do prices break the $1000 mark. I have seen quite a few at local gunshows in .303 British which did not generate much interest at $600- $700.

 

[Rod]

Here's a recent one from GunBroker.com. It didn't make the reserve bid but made it to $1100. I copied a picture as it may explain the sight holes drilled in the receiver. They may be for a factory installed "Lyman Quick Ajusting Sight". If this could be verified it would improve the value and saleablity of your Winchester. Keep in mind, it only takes one buyer and as much as some like to paint a picture of it being worth very little, these 1895's aren't exactly falling out of trees. . . Winchester manufactured, between 1895 to 1931, 426,000 1895 rifles with 294,000 of these sold to the Russian Government, leaving only 132,000 1895 Rifles here in North America. I wonder how many of these are still around. I bet there's almost as many Japanese made repros than original Winchester 1895's..

As 4831 so correctly pointed out, there's some who can't afford to pay what a 95% 1895 is worth but would very much enjoy having and shooting an affordable one. Furthermore, the 30 Us Cal. (30-40) is a very popular caliber in this rifle. Ammo is still available and it packs enough punch to be considered a good hunting caliber and can be used in the 1895 without having to worry over creating excessive headspace by shooting the more powerful round, the 30-06. The steel in the bolts aren't quite hard enough for the more powerful rounds. Headspace can be repaired, but it does cost a bit. The 303 British is not a real sought after caliber in this rifle. It does have somewhat of a following here in Canada. Any way here's the info from GunBroker.

It bid up to $1100, but didn't make reserve. I would want reassurance that the finish hasn't been doctored up before paying more as it looks too good. A little too shiney and more bluing than most have remaining as those old "Nickel Steel" receivers didn't hold bluing very well or very long. This may explain why it didn't make the reserve bid. But with the American economy what it is, very little has been selling at all even at low prices.

Mod 1895 30 US cal Rare 28" BBL. Schnable stock(ebony inlay). 1916 very good wood butstock. Crescent butt plate. Lyman quick adj sight. Marble sight on bbl. Excellent bore. Ser#88,### B-mark.

 

[Mike Webb]

Not a bad looking 95, but you are talking about the U.S. market not Canada and there is a difference. In general, auction prices average about 30% above retail, at least that is what my American friends tell me anyway. The prices paid in Canada for 95's are still lower than one would expect. Personally I like 95's and as far as numbers go, they only produced 159,000 or so 1886 Winchesters, so the 95 numbers aren't far off 86 numbers. The OP thought his had been drilled for a side mount and I mentioned the Climbin' Lyman which to the naked eye would appear to fit. But Matt74 said that Winchester never drilled holes through the Winchester address and he would know.
Personally I think the lower prices 95's bring is due to their appearance, to most they just don't "look" like a Winchester lever. Somewhat ungainly and when the action is open they have a "dropped pants" look about them. I would encourage the OP to search for a Lyman sight and mount it, they are pricey if you can find one, $200-$300 dollars. But it would bump the value more than that and they work great. To me, with the proper sight the gun would be worth up to $1000 depending on bore and stock condition. My 2 cents anyway.

 

[senior]

Rod: as Mike pointed out, the rifle you pointed out for price comparison is on Gun Broker which has very little to do with real world pricing here in Kanada. The wood & blueing on that rifle looks very nice compared to an average 95. Next deduct the value of one of those sidemounts $1,100 - $300 = $800. Eight hundred Gun Broker value translates into about $500 here in Canada.
The .30us happens to be one of the calibers I most like in 95s & I would guess would bring slightly more than a comparable 303. But as a reciever drilled 95, I still wouldn't put a realistic value as high as $700 with $5-6 being much more realistic.

 

[Rod]

I still wouldn't put a realistic value as high as $700 with $5-6 being much more realistic.

It would depend on how bad the OP wants to sell it, how he wants to sell it and where he wants to sell it. Not too many of these 1895's for sale here on CGN at the moment so I fail to see the point of starting out at a low price. If he trys the west coast gun shows he may get more than CGN as an 1895 appears to be worth more here in the west as I seldom see an 1895 sitting on a table at a gun show and the ones I have saw aren't that great and are priced quite high. There are sellers that frequent as many shows as possible that would take the OP's gun and put it on his table for a percentage. This is quite common and a good way for someone who's patient to sell their gun. As I said, if the gun has good wood and a good bore and has no other issues, it's a saleable gun. If it's a dog, that's a different story, and therefore it's value will be determined by what it sells for. One thing about west coast guns shows, we dicker on the prices and most sellers rarely get offended with buyers looking for a deal. Price it accordingly.

 

[Rod]

Not a bad looking 95, but you are talking about the U.S. market not Canada and there is a difference. In general, auction prices average about 30% above retail, at least that is what my American friends tell me anyway. The prices paid in Canada for 95's are still lower than one would expect. Personally I like 95's and as far as numbers go, they only produced 159,000 or so 1886 Winchesters, so the 95 numbers aren't far off 86 numbers. The OP thought his had been drilled for a side mount and I mentioned the Climbin' Lyman which to the naked eye would appear to fit. But Matt74 said that Winchester never drilled holes through the Winchester address and he would know.
Personally I think the lower prices 95's bring is due to their appearance, to most they just don't "look" like a Winchester lever. Somewhat ungainly and when the action is open they have a "dropped pants" look about them. I would encourage the OP to search for a Lyman sight and mount it, they are pricey if you can find one, $200-$300 dollars. But it would bump the value more than that and they work great. To me, with the proper sight the gun would be worth up to $1000 depending on bore and stock condition. My 2 cents anyway.

Mike: According to Geo. Madis, the Lyman receiver sights were the most popular special order peep sights for the Model 95. In George's Winchester Book he dedicates a chapter of 30 pages to the 1895. Geo shows quite a few pictures of 95's with the factory special order Lyman Adjustable sights. On page 466 is a large picture showing the Lyman sight on a deluxe factory engraved gun and he makes mention of it being a factory special order. According to Madis the extra hole in the rear of the receiver worked for a number of factory supplied Lyman receiver sights and were quite popular in the day and was common to special order these to the the buyer's needs. But Geo. shows more of the longer sight, using two holes rather, than the smaller receiver peep sight, page 467, that only requires the rear hole only. This rear hole appears to be drilled exactly where the OP's 95 is drilled.

 

[pukakoe]

Hey Guys, I have info over load

I saw pictures with the Lyman #21 sight and it surely looks about the correct spacing for the holes. I was trying to find a template that would show actual measurement between the holes but haven't been that lucky.

Story on the gun is it is a friend of a friend (that inherited it and doesn't have any use for it) and I wanted to get an idea what to offer so I could be fair. I don't want to low ball but I also don't want to go to far the other direction either.

I haven't checked the bore yet but will do so tonight.

Thanks again for all the points of view.

-Geoff

 

[icedog]

I sold a 1904 production 95 in 30 U.S. fairly quickly on the board here a year or two ago for about $600 IIRC. Purchased it as a beater for around $175, refinished the wood with many many coats of hand rubbed tung oil, bought a replica steel butt plate for it, put a lot of hours into cleaning up pits and rust on the action and barrel, then paid for a professional polish and hot blue. Before selling it, I removed the old (already refinished) wood and put on an entirely new and nicely figured walnut stock set ... which also took many many hours of fitting and finishing. In all the piece cost me around $450, and my labor turned out to be worth about $.50/hr. Was it worth it? Absolutely! On top of everything I learned about the old 95, and the fun I had reloading for it and shooting it, the whole restoration process was a highly satisfying project. Almost forgot ... I was able to get a fair price from the sale of the original wood as well. Apologies for the long story. My point is, old guns are fun. I would think the 95 in question here could be fairly purchased for $400-$600.