Win 760 vs H414

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hawk-i

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I was always told win 760 and H 414 is the same powder in a different package.

The Hornady 9th and 10th manual list for the 7mm-08 as follows

139 gr bullets W760 48.9 gr/ H414 49.9 gr both max loads
150-154 bullets W760 45.6grs/ H414 48.3gr both max loads
162 gr bullets W760 44.5 gr/ H414 46.6gr both max loads

Why such a difference and doesn't the listed max H 414 loads seem a little hot?
 
Can't give you a definitive answer on your question, but as for H-414/WW-760 being the same powder, I spoke to a tech at Hodgdon and he told me they are the same powder only from different lots. Maybe the different load #'s are being they are from different lots.
 
Quickload specs them out as the same, obviously lot to lot will vary as you noted. I have only used W760 myself so no head to head results. Once my 8lb jug of 760 is gone I will likely not bother again. It works fine but the worst temp stability of any powders out there. Winchester's new Sta Ball 6.5 ball powder looks like a step in the right direction
 
todbartell said:
Quickload specs them out as the same, obviously lot to lot will vary as you noted. I have only used W760 myself so no head to head results. Once my 8lb jug of 760 is gone I will likely not bother again. It works fine but the worst temp stability of any powders out there. Winchester's new Sta Ball 6.5 ball powder looks like a step in the right direction
Click to expand...

Do you have 6.5 StaBall in stock or coming soon?
 
Hodgdon and Winchester/Olin have had a symbiotic relationship going back to at least the late 70's ( when I started reloading ).Back then,there was more collaboration involving both rifle/shotgun and handgun powders.Winchester 540 and 541 were rebranded to Hodgdon HS6 and HS7,Hodgdon H414 and H450 rebranded into Winchester 760 and 780 and H110 into W296,amongst others perhaps ( I might have the rebranding backwards ).With Winchester powder ( and IMR ) now under Hodgdon's wing,the reloading data in the last few soft cover Hodgdon's reloading manuals now simply copies the data results exactly between H414 and W760.Same powder charges,same velocities,same pressures.It's the same with Winchester 296 and Hodgdon 110.

The other loading manuals still probably test each powder separately,thus resulting in the discrepancies in data ( there's no way that their testing could produce the exact same data for both powders the way that Hodgdons can publish ).

Try to get a copy of the latest Hodgdons ( or earlier versions ) soft cover manuals and it might help reassure that the data for the 2 powders can be viewed identically.
 
Win 760 is what I use in the 7mm-08 -.284 win +7x57 with 140gr bullets..............works great in the .270 with 130gr and stellar in my .250-3000 with 100gr loads in my 700 Classic.Temp sensitive ? Never noticed nor did the deer , even in -30C.Magnum primers for all winter hunting and ball powders.
 
I have used the same amount of each powder for my Rem 260 ,they have a very similar burn rate I found .But I am sure someone will say I am wrong lol but it worked great for me. The Nosler Book shows the same charge weight for the Rem 260
 
I have burned a lot of both H414 and W760 over the years. Never noted enough difference in the two to
concern me. Obviously there will be small differences, lot-to-lot, but they certainly are "twins" for all
practical purposes.

They do show temperature sensitivity. My pet load in the 30-06 with the 165 Partition reads 2865 avg in
+18ºC temps, but only generates 2710 at -20ºC. Enough to make a difference beyond 250 yards. Dave.
 
Olin is a powder maker. They sell powder to ammo companies and also to companies that package powders as canister grade powders to sell to reloaders.

Olin makes a powder called 760. If I order a couple tons of it from Olin, I will get powder from a given manufacturing lot that could be somewhat faster or slower than what you would buy in a Winchester can.

As a manufacturer, I would develop a load with my ton of powder to get the velocity I was looking for in my next million rounds of 30-06 I was making.

Hodgen also buys Olin 760 to package as a H414 canister grade powder. They only buy the lots of powder that are about the right speed for their version of 760, so reloaders can trust it.

And Winchester also used to buy Olin 760, and bought only lots of a specific speed so they could sell a canister grade 760.

All three buyers (ammo maker, Winchester, and Hodgen) all use "760" powder, but they are not all the same. The manufacturer might have a slow lot of 760, that is almost 785, or a fast lot, that is almost 380. He does not care, since he adjusts the load to suit. When Olin offers him powders, the speed of each lot is noted, so the maker can choose a powder of the speed range he wants. He may prefer a faster or slower version of the powder.

The canister grade sellers have a specific speed range in mind. Winchester and Hodgen introduced their canister powders (H414 and 760) independently, and they may have specified slightly different speed ranges. So although both powders are Olin 760, they may be slightly different speeds of 760.

The usual reason for a big difference in max loads in manuals is different rifles. It is not unusual to see 150 fps difference between two 'identical" rifles, or a 5,000 psi difference with identical ammo. If one manual used rifle A and the next version of the manual used rifle B, the load data will be different.

The "Max" listed in the book referred to their rifle. You have to find max for your rifle, yourself. Their Max might be way over pressure in your rifle. I have had Start loads that were way over pressure in a given rifle.
 
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I have 2 lots of non-canister 760 powders that I bought from Higginson's some years ago.
Both are noticeably slower burning than is canister grade 760/H414.

One was marketed as W760 SL10 or AMS47SB Lot 10, the other as W760 SL 131.
The SL 10 is very similar in burning rate to IMR 4350, the SL 131 is slower yet.
Ganderite explained these variances quite well in post #11.

Both are sphericals, but the SL 10 is round spheres, whereas the SL 131 is flattened
spheres. I found that SL 10 yields spectacular accuracy in the 30-06 and the 270
Winchester. My 325 WSM likes the SL 131 with 196 grain bullets. Dave.
 
hawk-i said:
I was always told win 760 and H 414 is the same powder in a different package.

The Hornady 9th and 10th manual list for the 7mm-08 as follows

139 gr bullets W760 48.9 gr/ H414 49.9 gr both max loads
150-154 bullets W760 45.6grs/ H414 48.3gr both max loads
162 gr bullets W760 44.5 gr/ H414 46.6gr both max loads

Why such a difference and doesn't the listed max H 414 loads seem a little hot?
Click to expand...

Different lot#, different firearm used for testing.
 
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