Winchester 101 Pigeon grade?

Gldnbear

Gldnbear

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Bought a 20 ga 101advertised as a pigeon grade, really I just took a bit of a flyer on it.
I’ve owned 7-8 101 pigeon grade guns, this is not a pigeon as far as I know. All pigeons I’ve seen have the satin nickel reciever with a pigeon on the bottom.
This has black receiver with gold pheasants on one side, looks like flushing sharptails or woodcock or grouse of some sort on the other and a gold retriever with a bird in its mouth on the bottom. Haven’t even received the gun yet but was wondering if there’s any 101 experts out there that may know what it is exactly?
It has win chokes and very nice wood, pics aren’t great
 

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I was looking at that one in their website. That is a Classic Doubles 101. They took over production of the 101 for Winchester and then when Winchester discontinued the 101 Classic Doubles bought the rights to produce the gun. The engraving on the receivers of a non-Winchester produced CD were different patterns as was the finishing and grading on the various grades. That is still a beauty of a gun. I almost pulled the pin on that one last week but decided I didn't need it. I have a few other gun " needs"that need to be addressed instead. Congrats on your purchase.
 
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the spank said:
I was looking at that one in their website. That is a Classic Doubles 101. They took over production of the 101 for Winchester and then when Winchester discontinued the 101 Classic Doubles bought the rights to produce the gun. The engraving on the receivers of a non-Winchester produced CD were different patterns as was the finishing and grading on the various grades. That is still a beauty of a gun. I almost pulled the pin on that one last week but decided I didn't need it. I have a few other gun " needs"that need to be addressed instead. Congrats on your purchase.
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Is it worth 2200$? Or worth more or less than a Winchester made 101 pigeon?
 
I guess I’m just a bit confused. If it’s in fact a “ classic doubles” gun , why didnt flahertys describe it as such? A rather critical piece of information I’d say. They described it as a “ Winchester pigeon grade”. You’d think they’d know the difference. I think we can all agree it’s not a
Winchester pigeon grade.
Hopefully as nice as it looks anyway.
 
Gldnbear said:
Is it worth 2200$? Or worth more or less than a Winchester made 101 pigeon?
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In a sub-gauge like that it was an excellent buy. It's basically a Winchester and it may be a late model Classic Doubles made for Winchester. If it is it will have Winchester stamped on it. All the late models(80's) Winchester over unders and side by sides were made by Classic Doubles and they are superbly made. I'd take one over alot of other well known branded double guns of that era. In my opinion the 101's by Olin Kodensha and later Classic Doubles are every bit the quality built gun that a Citori is if not better but that's just from a layman's perspective and not a gunsmith's.
 
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the spank said:
In a sub-gauge like that it was an excellent buy. It's basically a Winchester and it may be a late model Classic Doubles made for Winchester. If it is it will have Winchester stamped on it. All the late models(80's) Winchester over unders and side by sides were made by Classic Doubles and they are superbly made. I'd take one over alot of other well known branded double guns of that era. In my opinion the 101's by Olin Kodensha and later Classic Doubles are every bit the quality built gun that a Citori is if not better but that's just from a layman's perspective and not a gunsmith's.
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Awesome… thanks for the reply and information, much appreciated
 
The Classic Doubles 101 is well made, balances well and no worry about quality etc. I've had both Winchester 101's & Classic Doubles and would buy one again .....almost bought the one heading to you, but as I said I really didn't need it. The last Classic Doubles 101 Pigeon grade ( I think it was Pigeon ?? spank will know as he had the same one a few years ago) that I saw for sale about 6 years ago in a gun store was listed for $2000 plus tax and it was a 12 gauge DU gun , with winchester case, win chokes and that had been hunted. I would rate in very good condition. It sold within 2-3 weeks of being listed.
 
maynard said:
I wouldn't be upset if I bought a 101 and they sent me a classic double instead.
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If I wanted a Classic Double (and they are a fine firearm btw) firearm I would expect it to be described as such.
Same as if I wanted a Winchester 101 and then received something completely different I would be upset in that I didn't get what I
ordered.
Time will tell when the OP gets his parcel in the mail.
Buddy got a screaming deal on a classic double a few years back.
upon further research we found they came from the same manufacturing/assembly line save for the labeling.
The parts allegedly interchangeable between the two. ( I am repeating information from a local gun smith who since passed).
Can not wait to see the new to the OP when it arrives and chooses to or not post some pics.
Rob
 
FLHTCUI said:
If I wanted a Classic Double (and they are a fine firearm btw) firearm I would expect it to be described as such.
Same as if I wanted a Winchester 101 and then received something completely different I would be upset in that I didn't get what I
ordered.
Time will tell when the OP gets his parcel in the mail.
Buddy got a screaming deal on a classic double a few years back.
upon further research we found they came from the same manufacturing/assembly line save for the labeling.
The parts allegedly interchangeable between the two. ( I am repeating information from a local gun smith who since passed).
Can not wait to see the new to the OP when it arrives and chooses to or not post some pics.
Rob
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As I stated same gun just different names. After Winchester sold the license to CD they were sold under the CD name. Prior to that they were sold under the Winchester name. The boxes even were labelled Winchester Classic Doubles. When CD sold them under their own name they changed them cosmetically with different engraving patterns and finishes. A few even sported a completely different rib style.
 
Ok sooo. Got the gun today, still probably no closer to figuring out exactly what it is.
The good is flahertys described it as accurately as possible. It does say pigeon grade on the barrel and the serial number starts PK which is pigeon grade the barrel says Winchester and made in Japan, no mention of classic doubles. My questions are still what is it, I’ve owned 7-8 101 pigeons, it’s not that, at least not like any pigeon I’ve seen or owned, gold trigger, gold birds, and my biggest concern is the barrels, they are matte, and it’s not rust blue like every other 101 I’ve owned, so I don’t know if someone did that or it came that way and just doesn’t make sense like the rest of it lol.
It is a very sweet gun and came with 10 chokes, is in mint condition so it’ll be a nice gun to hunt if I decide to keep it, or if my OCD lets me keep it.
Here’s a few pictures
 

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Gldnbear said:
Ok sooo. Got the gun today, still probably no closer to figuring out exactly what it is.
The good is flahertys described it as accurately as possible. It does say pigeon grade on the barrel and the serial number starts PK which is pigeon grade the barrel says Winchester and made in Japan, no mention of classic doubles. My questions are still what is it, I’ve owned 7-8 101 pigeons, it’s not that, at least not like any pigeon I’ve seen or owned, gold trigger, gold birds, and my biggest concern is the barrels, they are matte, and it’s not rust blue like every other 101 I’ve owned, so I don’t know if someone did that or it came that way and just doesn’t make sense like the rest of it lol.
It is a very sweet gun and came with 10 chokes, is in mint condition so it’ll be a nice gun to hunt if I decide to keep it, or if my OCD lets me keep it.
Here’s a few pictures
Click to expand...
It sure does look pretty though !
I too had a hell'uv'a time finding information on "Custom Doubles".
I did finally after a few googelfoo tries find some basic info.
I think the "Blue Book of Gun Values" had some good if not basic information in it.
Two things that would convince me to buy one in a heart beat would to have it in my hands (not sight unseen) and reading my BBoGV .
A good gunsmith who is familiar with Winchester O/U or S/S should have no troubles figuring out (if and when) I had any issues.
Hope it is not a disapointment, but rather a good score for you and the game you chase.
Rob
 
That gun is in my estimation 100% Winchester made by Classic Doubles. The style of floral engraving, the bluing finish, the rib shape, between barrels porting and the gold birds are very late model, last run before the switchover occurred without the Winchester name.
I saw a fellow at a skeet shoot several years ago with a set of 4 non-winchester CD 101 skeet grades(12-20-28-410) and they all had that same matte like finish and the ribs were vastly different than what you have. Love that POW grip on yours. I have a buddy with a really late run CD made Winchester Model 23 in 20ga with the identical gold birds and it too was part of a 4 gun serial # matching set in the 4 gauges.
A few years back a fellow I used to hunt with picked up a very late model, again last run 101 20ga (non-pigeon) with the identical floral pattern engraving for sale on gunnutz. It was very interesting to put it alongside my mid-80's made 50th Anniversary DU and compare the similarities and differences.
From what I have seen most have never seen these late model runs because Winchester was ending the line so there was nowhere near the number distributed of the earlier models. When Winchester started having CD produce their double guns they had them made to the identical specification as they were when first introduced and over time started switching aesthetics up a bit. You can see the difference easily in hand between a mid-70's 101 Pigeon or other of the higher graded guns especially in the wood when compared to a mid 80's 101. The colours were much lighter and figure offered in pigeon and other higher grades was vastly different(improved) as were subtle differences like forend shapes, recoil pads, rib styles, engraving depth and patterns and even the markings and style of Winchokes (flush mount) which on earlier models were not available. Earlier models had the classic narrow external knurled end if the gun was optioned with screw chokes. Many still had fixed chokes. Not to say they aren't out there but I've never seen a CD made 101 with fixed chokes. What you have in my opinion based on your pictures is 100% a last run 101 by CD for Winchester. I would not be the least bit surprised either that just like when they ended the Model 12 and the SX1 that many of these guns got assembled in the custom shop from leftover production parts hence the "it doesn't look like any Winchester I've seen in that grade".
 
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