Winchester 101 Pigeon grade?

[Gldnbear]

That gun is in my estimation 100% Winchester made by Classic Doubles. The style of floral engraving, the bluing finish, the rib shape, between barrels porting and the gold birds are very late model, last run before the switchover occurred without the Winchester name.
I saw a fellow at a skeet shoot several years ago with a set of 4 non-winchester CD 101 skeet grades(12-20-28-410) and they all had that same matte like finish and the ribs were vastly different than what you have. Love that POW grip on yours. I have a buddy with a really late run CD made Winchester Model 23 in 20ga with the identical gold birds and it too was part of a 4 gun serial # matching set in the 4 gauges.
A few years back a fellow I used to hunt with picked up a very late model, again last run 101 20ga (non-pigeon) with the identical floral pattern engraving for sale on gunnutz. It was very interesting to put it alongside my mid-80's made 50th Anniversary DU and compare the similarities and differences.
From what I have seen most have never seen these late model runs because Winchester was ending the line so there was nowhere near the number distributed of the earlier models. When Winchester started having CD produce their double guns they had them made to the identical specification as they were when first introduced and over time started switching aesthetics up a bit. You can see the difference easily in hand between a mid-70's 101 Pigeon or other of the higher graded guns especially in the wood when compared to a mid 80's 101. The colours were much lighter and figure offered in pigeon and other higher grades was vastly different(improved) as were subtle differences like forend shapes, recoil pads, rib styles, engraving depth and patterns and even the markings and style of Winchokes (flush mount) which on earlier models were not available. Earlier models had the classic narrow external knurled end if the gun was optioned with screw chokes. Many still had fixed chokes. Not to say they aren't out there but I've never seen a CD made 101 with fixed chokes. What you have in my opinion based on your pictures is 100% a last run 101 by CD for Winchester. I would not be the least bit surprised either that just like when they ended the Model 12 and the SX1 that many of these guns got assembled in the custom shop from leftover production parts hence the "it doesn't look like any Winchester I've seen in that grade".

Yes everything you’re saying makes complete sense to me as well. That was my thought as well , one of the last Winchester branded guns. It actually doesn’t even say “101” on it. I compared it to my field grade 101 ,20 ga from the mid 70’s. Barrels swap over from gun to gun but neither forearm swaps. Yes some of the chokes are flush mount some not so either work. Your observation of the wood grade/ quality is interesting, I also picked up on it, the later 80’s pigeon guns the wood was getting terrible, not that beautiful dark red flame walnut of the earlier years pigeons I owned and selected/ bought because of the wood.
I ll put a pic of my earlier 20 ga pigeon compared to this one. I’ve gotta say I preferred the earlier version but both are very nice. Thanks for replying with your insights

 

[Beekman]

Yes everything you’re saying makes complete sense to me as well. That was my thought as well , one of the last Winchester branded guns. It actually doesn’t even say “101” on it. I compared it to my field grade 101 ,20 ga from the mid 70’s. Barrels swap over from gun to gun but neither forearm swaps. Yes some of the chokes are flush mount some not so either work. Your observation of the wood grade/ quality is interesting, I also picked up on it, the later 80’s pigeon guns the wood was getting terrible, not that beautiful dark red flame walnut of the earlier years pigeons I owned and selected/ bought because of the wood.
I ll put a pic of my earlier 20 ga pigeon compared to this one. I’ve gotta say I preferred the earlier version but both are very nice. Thanks for replying with your insights

This is an interesting thread and related comments speculating about an unique shotgun and what to truly call it. It is a nice looking shotgun and I think you did well to obtain it at the value you did.

It is surprising to me that the barrel says Winchester but on the bottom of the receiver it does not. Being stamped "Made in Japan", it most definitely came from the Classic Doubles factory. Whether to call it a Winchester or a Classic Double(CD) remains a mystery to me.

Spank has a very reasonable explanation with respect to the end of production and the assembly of spare parts to make up that gun. I would probably be inclined to call it a hybrid with both Winchester and CD parts given it has a stamped Winchester barrel, but does not say that on the bottom of the receiver. I would not call it a Presentation grade.

I have seen & owned over the years many Winchester 101 field and pigeon grades(both regular pigeon and the Presentation grades) as well as CD shotguns, and I have never run across something unique as you have given the matted barrels and the different birds on the sides & underneath of the receiver.

Attached are some photos of a Winchester 101 pigeon presentation grade I have. Note on the under side of the receiver the engraved pigeon as well as "Winchester".

Nice find on your part, and I hope you are enjoying shooting and collecting the shotgun you recently obtained.

 

[Falconflyer]

Beautiful 101 there Beekman!

 

[Beekman]

Beautiful 101 there Beekman!

Thanks Falconflyer. The 101 pigeon presentation grade guns are much harder to come across these days in Canada.

I rarely shoot, it is more of a collector item. Haven't pull the trigger on it in a decade.

 

[Gldnbear]

This is an interesting thread and related comments speculating about an unique shotgun and what to truly call it. It is a nice looking shotgun and I think you did well to obtain it at the value you did.

It is surprising to me that the barrel says Winchester but on the bottom of the receiver it does not. Being stamped "Made in Japan", it most definitely came from the Classic Doubles factory. Whether to call it a Winchester or a Classic Double(CD) remains a mystery to me.

Spank has a very reasonable explanation with respect to the end of production and the assembly of spare parts to make up that gun. I would probably be inclined to call it a hybrid with both Winchester and CD parts given it has a stamped Winchester barrel, but does not say that on the bottom of the receiver. I would not call it a Presentation grade.

I have seen & owned over the years many Winchester 101 field and pigeon grades(both regular pigeon and the Presentation grades) as well as CD shotguns, and I have never run across something unique as you have given the matted barrels and the different birds on the sides & underneath of the receiver.

Attached are some photos of a Winchester 101 pigeon presentation grade I have. Note on the under side of the receiver the engraved pigeon as well as "Winchester".

Nice find on your part, and I hope you are enjoying shooting and collecting the shotgun you recently obtained.

Thanks for the info, yes it’s definitely an anomaly of sorts, when I first saw it I thought “ presentation grade” but the presentation grade has much more intricate engraving, definitely a different beast. This is odd, I don’t anyone will ever be able to 100% tell what it is. I would’ve thought and assume there are others out there . I’d like to find someone that has pictures of one.

 

[Beekman]

Thanks for the info, yes it’s definitely an anomaly of sorts, when I first saw it I thought “ presentation grade” but the presentation grade has much more intricate engraving, definitely a different beast. This is odd, I don’t anyone will ever be able to 100% tell what it is. I would’ve thought and assume there are others out there . I’d like to find someone that has pictures of one.

Your welcome, and many thanks to you for posting about your unique shotgun. I definitely hope other Winchester and/or CD collectors see this conversation and post other photos and information as well.

 

[Beekman]

Thanks for the info, yes it’s definitely an anomaly of sorts, when I first saw it I thought “ presentation grade” but the presentation grade has much more intricate engraving, definitely a different beast. This is odd, I don’t anyone will ever be able to 100% tell what it is. I would’ve thought and assume there are others out there . I’d like to find someone that has pictures of one.

I also found an article in The Double Gun Journal from spring 2001 as attached which givens a historical perspective on the Olin-Kodensha Japan made Winchester 101s and other firearms over their history. Enjoy the read.