What is the new manufacture Winchester 1886 in 45-90 designed to do? Originally I gather this was barrelled for black powder while the 45-70 moved forward into the smokeless realm, the 45-90 was supposed to be used with BP only. Presumably the same thing today. Or is it designed to shoot heavier loads with new components than those that can be realized with the 45-70? If they set them up that way it would be close on the heels of the 458 Win Mag, and there would not be a need for the Wild West or other variants of the 45 lever platform.
Winchester 1886 in 45-90, new rifles and ammo?
- Thread starter Pepperpopper
- Start date
i doubt that a Model 1886 action could handle any thing near the top end heavy loads that are close to the .458.I believe those heavy loads are obtained in the single shot Ruger and Winchester type arms.
The Model 1886 will handle heavier loads than those used in the single shot Springfield rifles ,but not the very heavy loads used in the new single shot rifles.
The Model 1886 will handle heavier loads than those used in the single shot Springfield rifles ,but not the very heavy loads used in the new single shot rifles.
Pretty well anything you want it to do. One could even make it into a 50-110 wcf and get close to 6000 ftlbs of energy with modern components. The original introduction by Winchester in 1900's probably got 3500 ftlbs with factory BP loads.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
The new 86's are roll stamped "for Black Powder only" ( at least mine is, its about 5 yrs old) .
The action is as strong as the old originals but I think they defaulted to the "BP only" status because of the large case volume would encourage modern day "whiz-bangers" to try to emulate .458Win Mag. I do use BP equivalent smokeless loads in mine (up to 1600 fps with 405 gr slug) but have no intension of exceeding that to .458 performance. Of course, more velocity would be attainable with a duplicate 300 gr bullet that was used in the so called "express loads" of the turn of the century.
Some modern 45-70's can easily reach mini-.458 standards safely so it is very easy to out-perform any 45-90 now produced, even the last Shilo Sharps literature I read recommended BP for any case with more volume than the 45-70...but its still very enjoyable to feed one of those looongg cartridges into a mag gate. My 45-89 will be one of my "last to go" rifles even though it is a "Japchester".
The action is as strong as the old originals but I think they defaulted to the "BP only" status because of the large case volume would encourage modern day "whiz-bangers" to try to emulate .458Win Mag. I do use BP equivalent smokeless loads in mine (up to 1600 fps with 405 gr slug) but have no intension of exceeding that to .458 performance. Of course, more velocity would be attainable with a duplicate 300 gr bullet that was used in the so called "express loads" of the turn of the century.
Some modern 45-70's can easily reach mini-.458 standards safely so it is very easy to out-perform any 45-90 now produced, even the last Shilo Sharps literature I read recommended BP for any case with more volume than the 45-70...but its still very enjoyable to feed one of those looongg cartridges into a mag gate. My 45-89 will be one of my "last to go" rifles even though it is a "Japchester".
1886 is super strong, but given the 45/90 was for black powder (or so I heard), I think the rifling is different. I have a future project in mind of going for the 50 Alaskan, but actually, if the 45/90 could be upgraded to full power loads, the 45/90 would probably penetrate better than the 50 Alaskan, not that it is a slouch either. Might be better to re-chamber an 1886 45/70 in 457 WWG, or 45/90 if it has the right barrel twist. Probably best to contact Winchester, though that will probable be a lawyer answer.
I don't need anything stronger than 45/70, just something that caught my fancy a few years back when I was thinking of Africa. I can't walk at this point, bad break, so that probably won't happen.
I don't need anything stronger than 45/70, just something that caught my fancy a few years back when I was thinking of Africa. I can't walk at this point, bad break, so that probably won't happen.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Yes mine is verified 1-20 twist (20" "short rifle" configuration). Accuracy at 100 yrds with poor eye and barrel open sites for me is pretty steady at 2" ( powder coated home cast 405 gr)...
Finger Toes
Regular
- Location
- Yellowhead County
The overall cartridge length that will cycle through the 86 action limits powder capacity. 45/90 case is longer but you don't really gain powder capacity because the the bullet has to be seated deeper to clear functional COL. On top of that most the 45 caliber flat nosed bullets have crimping cannalures that are designed for 45/70 in a marlin action and cannot be crimped in a 45/90 case and cycle through an 86 action. I've never owned or reloaded for a 45/90 for these reasons. I would imagine its mostly a cast bullet affair, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Last edited:
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
This be true. Besides, one has much better boolit weight options with the .45-70 in the '86 using hardcast along with easily obtained brass and lots of factory ammo selection. The 45-90 Winchester '86 with its' 1 in 20" twist ain't the best for stabilizing projectiles in weights beyond 350 gr or so. The curved steel butt plate fitted on these buggers make it painful shooting fer many during plink fests off the bench. (Like me.)
The Miroku/Winchester 45-90 is clearly aimed at the cowboy action sports and not as a heavy game buster, though it will do the job if needed using bullets
made for the job inside 100 yds.
If the OP wants a real nice '86 ,then the Pedersoli 1886 sporting rifle would be my choice.
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fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Any of the jacketed, canelured bullets that feed from magazine to chamber in my Marlin Cowboy 45-70 will also feed reliably thru my Jap 86. The ones that feed are 400 gr or smaller. The ones that wont feed in either rifle are the "heavier than 400 gr' that are marketed for SS falling block or RB 45-70's
or .458 win mag.
Of the 6 or 8 molds I have of .458-9 dia, two of them have a "crimp groove to nose" distance that is long for use in either rifle. One is a Lyman 400 gr round nose and the other is a Rapine 450 FN. Both will chamber in the rifles but I have to feed one at a time through the ejector port.
When loading BP as a propellant I can get 20 gr more in a 45-90 than a 45-70 with the same powder compression ( I use very little)...with smokeless, powder space is irrelevant between cases...recoil becomes the deciding factor very quickly...Shell Shucker is very right about that curved steel butt-plate on the Jap.
Finger Toes
Regular
- Location
- Yellowhead County
I'm surprised at the measurements but you are correct. I just measured some Hornaday and swift 350 gr and looks like they would be about 2.840 crimped in a 45-90. IIRC 2.880 is around max. I worked up loads for speer 350 grain and RL 7 for 1886 45-70 rounds. Designed for 458 win and the cannalure is further back on the shank. Maximizes powder capacity and col for that combo.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
I should have also mentioned that ,when using the longer ogive/nosed .458 win bullets in either the 45-70 or 45-90 and feeding through the ejection port that they have to be fired after inserting or the rifle bolt removed to remove a still loaded cartridge...they will not eject. Not much of a problem with the Marlins as one screw and the bolt slides out but bolt removal on those 86's are a much different story.
