Winchester 1907 followed me home...
- Thread starter Claven2
- Start date
Ok cool! You seem to have them set up identically then
Do you prefer one over another?
Ok,
I just pulled out one of my 1907's and my 1905 in 35 WSL.
Here's the skinny on what is what with mags and rounds fitting in original 35 and 351 mags.
Pics of both mags. Seems like someone modified an original 35 magazine to fit the 351 cartridges. If you Look at my original 35 magazine, you can see that it has a square front to the follower, and the feed ramp is attached to the magazine body. Looking at your magazine floorplate, bps540, it looks like they removed the follower and the feed ramp, and welded the ramp onto the front of the follower to make it longer and to get the ramp out of the way for the longer 351 cartridges. It also looks like they modified the rear magazine lips to shorten them to what length of the top (351 mag) should be. The magazine bodies are almost identical between the two. All of the factory magazine bodies were supposed to be stamped with the caliber on the bottom. Either your's was ground off, or yours is an aftermarket European magazine
The 351 will not feed into an unmodified 35 rifle. Here's what it should look like.
The scary thing is, the forend on the 35 is very narrow, and it's highly unlikely that more weight was added to the counterweight under there. The 35 forend has very flat sides, whereas the 351 has a rounded forend to give more room to the beefier counterweight. Without that extra weight, and the stronger recoil spring, I would think that it would be unsafe to fire using 351 rounds. More investigation under the hood, so to speak, is needed to see if there were any more modifications done to the spring and counterweight. There has to be a catch here. I can't see them doing all that work, and not figuring out that it would blow itself apart with a bunch of rounds through it if the modifications weren't also done to the counterweight and recoil spring. But who knows!!!
I just pulled out one of my 1907's and my 1905 in 35 WSL.
Here's the skinny on what is what with mags and rounds fitting in original 35 and 351 mags.
Pics of both mags. Seems like someone modified an original 35 magazine to fit the 351 cartridges. If you Look at my original 35 magazine, you can see that it has a square front to the follower, and the feed ramp is attached to the magazine body. Looking at your magazine floorplate, bps540, it looks like they removed the follower and the feed ramp, and welded the ramp onto the front of the follower to make it longer and to get the ramp out of the way for the longer 351 cartridges. It also looks like they modified the rear magazine lips to shorten them to what length of the top (351 mag) should be. The magazine bodies are almost identical between the two. All of the factory magazine bodies were supposed to be stamped with the caliber on the bottom. Either your's was ground off, or yours is an aftermarket European magazine
The 351 will not feed into an unmodified 35 rifle. Here's what it should look like.
The scary thing is, the forend on the 35 is very narrow, and it's highly unlikely that more weight was added to the counterweight under there. The 35 forend has very flat sides, whereas the 351 has a rounded forend to give more room to the beefier counterweight. Without that extra weight, and the stronger recoil spring, I would think that it would be unsafe to fire using 351 rounds. More investigation under the hood, so to speak, is needed to see if there were any more modifications done to the spring and counterweight. There has to be a catch here. I can't see them doing all that work, and not figuring out that it would blow itself apart with a bunch of rounds through it if the modifications weren't also done to the counterweight and recoil spring. But who knows!!!
Last edited:
Oh, and I have been meaning to get on here to post about this since 2022 when I was talking to Len Speckin about his new 3rd Edition of his book on the 1907's. Here are the 2 pertinent emails. I'll also put up a post all by itself on this subject, so that any Lover of these really cool rifles, can order a copy of his 3rd Edition book on the 1907 rifle, and the reprint of the original John Henwood "The Forgotten Winchesters"!!!!
As the below information is now 2 years old, I would send him an email to ask about these books, and if they're still available and what the new shipping cost would be to your location.
Cheers,
Ian
Subject: John Henwood's book, The Forgotten Winchesters
From: lspeckin@4n6.com
Date: Sat, July 23, 2022 2:14 pm
To: lspeckin@4n6.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1995 a book entitled "The Forgotten Winchesters: A History Of the Models 1905, 1907 and 1910 Self Loading Rifles" was copyrighted by John Henwood. Only 500 copies were printed. I purchased one of those original books from John circa 1996. It is an excellent book. His book was an inspiration for my book "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber:
Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass Bullets and Powders". In my book I did not duplicate John's work but carried forward where he left off. John passed away in 2011. His book is in great demand to the extent that one sold recently on line for $907.00 and another for $500.00.
In short I purchased the copyright of "The Forgotten Winchesters" from John's widow, Katherine Henwood. I learned from Mrs. Henwood there is no computer program and no disc for this book. The original 500 books were privately printed and published in black and white on a word processor.
Mrs. Henwood however found John's original manuscript for the book which allowed me to republish it without alteration either in substance or format.
The book is 122 pages. It will be published exactly as John wrote it with no editing or changes and will be virtually indistinguishable in appearance or format from John's first 500 copies. I will continue the same numbering sequence starting with 501. I expect it will be available for delivery in three weeks. I have the proof set on my desk. I am offering John's book first to the purchasers of my book on a pre-order basis as it will be a limited run edition. The cost is $75.00 per book including postage.
The third edition of my book is now available and is somewhat expanded regarding buffers (no longer available), recoil springs and the fitting of extra magazines, etc. Its price is $45.00. If you purchase both books the pre-order publication price is $100.00 including postage.
Send orders to: Leonard Speckin, 14028 Percy Drive, Mecosta, Michigan 49332. Payment is by check or money order. For orders outside of the United States please call or write for cross border tariff charges and postage rates.
Cell: (517) 881-9028
Land Line (231) 527-9352
-----Original Message-----
From: lspeckin@4n6.com <lspeckin@4n6.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 11:28 AM
To: lspeckin@4n6.com
Subject: . 351 books
My Canadian Friends,
It is embarrassing to write you of the postal charges to send my books to Canada. Each book will cost $22.00 to ship. This is outrageous but these rates are first class and the cheapest way to send the books according to the U.S. Post office. I will deduct from those amounts the cost of shipping in the United States. This will ease the pain somewhat. This then reduces the cost to $17.00 per book for shipping. If you wish both books the cost would be $90.00 + $34.00 shipping. My book alone would be
$40.00 + $22.00 shipping. John's book alone would be $70.00 + $22.00 shipping.
The easiest way is to get an international money order for the total amount from your bank and send to:
Leonard Speckin, 14028 Percy Road, Mecosta, Michigan 49332.
Best regards,
Leonard
As the below information is now 2 years old, I would send him an email to ask about these books, and if they're still available and what the new shipping cost would be to your location.
Cheers,
Ian
Subject: John Henwood's book, The Forgotten Winchesters
From: lspeckin@4n6.com
Date: Sat, July 23, 2022 2:14 pm
To: lspeckin@4n6.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1995 a book entitled "The Forgotten Winchesters: A History Of the Models 1905, 1907 and 1910 Self Loading Rifles" was copyrighted by John Henwood. Only 500 copies were printed. I purchased one of those original books from John circa 1996. It is an excellent book. His book was an inspiration for my book "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber:
Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass Bullets and Powders". In my book I did not duplicate John's work but carried forward where he left off. John passed away in 2011. His book is in great demand to the extent that one sold recently on line for $907.00 and another for $500.00.
In short I purchased the copyright of "The Forgotten Winchesters" from John's widow, Katherine Henwood. I learned from Mrs. Henwood there is no computer program and no disc for this book. The original 500 books were privately printed and published in black and white on a word processor.
Mrs. Henwood however found John's original manuscript for the book which allowed me to republish it without alteration either in substance or format.
The book is 122 pages. It will be published exactly as John wrote it with no editing or changes and will be virtually indistinguishable in appearance or format from John's first 500 copies. I will continue the same numbering sequence starting with 501. I expect it will be available for delivery in three weeks. I have the proof set on my desk. I am offering John's book first to the purchasers of my book on a pre-order basis as it will be a limited run edition. The cost is $75.00 per book including postage.
The third edition of my book is now available and is somewhat expanded regarding buffers (no longer available), recoil springs and the fitting of extra magazines, etc. Its price is $45.00. If you purchase both books the pre-order publication price is $100.00 including postage.
Send orders to: Leonard Speckin, 14028 Percy Drive, Mecosta, Michigan 49332. Payment is by check or money order. For orders outside of the United States please call or write for cross border tariff charges and postage rates.
Cell: (517) 881-9028
Land Line (231) 527-9352
-----Original Message-----
From: lspeckin@4n6.com <lspeckin@4n6.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 11:28 AM
To: lspeckin@4n6.com
Subject: . 351 books
My Canadian Friends,
It is embarrassing to write you of the postal charges to send my books to Canada. Each book will cost $22.00 to ship. This is outrageous but these rates are first class and the cheapest way to send the books according to the U.S. Post office. I will deduct from those amounts the cost of shipping in the United States. This will ease the pain somewhat. This then reduces the cost to $17.00 per book for shipping. If you wish both books the cost would be $90.00 + $34.00 shipping. My book alone would be
$40.00 + $22.00 shipping. John's book alone would be $70.00 + $22.00 shipping.
The easiest way is to get an international money order for the total amount from your bank and send to:
Leonard Speckin, 14028 Percy Road, Mecosta, Michigan 49332.
Best regards,
Leonard
I plan to take mine out a few days this fall also. I tend to hunt with several rifles each year, it’s a bit random which I’m carrying when I bag my white tail. Maybe this year it will be this 1907 - who knows?
Thank you smithsauce.. very informative & interesting.
Sadly the owner is no longer with us to offer an explanation.
I can tell you a half box of 351’s came with the rifle with a few empty cases .
I noticed the stamp on the barrel didn’t match the ammunition.
I was too gun shy to try it but it functions fine with 35’s.
Mysteries are sometimes fun.
Sadly the owner is no longer with us to offer an explanation.
I can tell you a half box of 351’s came with the rifle with a few empty cases .
I noticed the stamp on the barrel didn’t match the ammunition.
I was too gun shy to try it but it functions fine with 35’s.
Mysteries are sometimes fun.
