Winchester 452 -- Tony Sport?

Cerdan

Cerdan

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I bought 1lb of this old powder from a fellow CGNner yesterday. The only thing I bothered to check before grabbing it was a few burn rate charts, seems it's a fast-burning powder designed for 12ga that's slower than AA2, Red Dot or Titegroup but faster than Green Dot, 700X or Unique.

Thing is, I got home and found not a single bit of load data for this powder, in manuals or on-line. Seems a lot older than I thought. I was hoping to load various pistol calibres with it, anyone have any experience using it?

Second question: The powder came in a sealed plastic ammo can similar to the ones used by Hodgdon, only white. The semi-commercial label reads "Repackaged by Tony Sport". Anyone heard of'em? I suspect they were on the Quebec side...
 
452 powder

I have used a winchester powder 452AA if it is the same i have had good luck with it in light loads in .38 and .357
 
Yep, Tony Sport, Papineau ave in Montreal. Closed since a while now.
I still have some Nosler bullets, 7mm 140gr Balistic Tip in 100 cts box with "Tony Sport" price tag on them, $19.80 for a 100cts box, those were the days!!
 
For many years 452AA was used in Win. factory AA 12 ga. loads and alot of us reloaded it to replicate those loads, 18.5 grs. if i remember correctly...was also popular in the .45 Auto.
 
Thanks for the responses, all. Rereading my first post, that should read "powder can" and not "ammo can", but I'm sure my gist was got.

Thanks to wcat and justseedz, I know this powder is at least 10 years old. Still looks and smells great though. And thanks to ben and bugs, I have confirmation of what I've heard here and there through the Internet grapevine, that this powder yields good results in lower-pressure .45ACP and .38spl loads.

Since I've extensive experience loading those calibres with the reference powders noted in the OP, I should be able to establish a safe starting load using 452. Thanks again!
 
Tony's Sport was a gun lovers friend and re loaders paradise located in Montreal Quebec but closed its doors many years ago. I have used the 452 in my 45 auto but can't find my paperwork on it.
 
I have a 1973 Winchester load data book. There are lots of loads for 12 ga. target shells using 452AA but none are listed for light pistol cartridges, which do list 230 or 630.
I think your approach based on burning rate will be OK, just be careful.
 
And another vote for the .45! The powder's numerical designation sure seems to point to its efficacy in that cartridge! ;)

Thanks for the offer John but I'm looking to load metallic cartridges.

Longwalker, thanks for taking the time to look. I'm surprised such an old Winchester manual doesn't supply any pistol load data. I know quite a few powders designed for 12ga that double up as pistol powders (SR-7625, 700-X and Universal come to mind) and the data's always there to support that.

As always, I'll be careful in developing a load with this vintage, mystery powder. Informed, controlled experiments have always been one of the most interesting aspects of reloading, to my eyes.
 
452

God this makes me feel old I'm just using up a 8'lber of win 473 makes a really soft 40 cal 180 load
but on with the topic

Speer Loading manual #11 For 45 ACP
185 TMJ SWC start 4.3 757 fps max 4.7 819 fps
200 gr TMJ SWC start 5.0 841 fps max 5.5 898 fps
200 gr JHP start 5.0 868 fps max 5.5 916 fps
230 fr FMJ RN start 4.7 760 fps max 5.3 825 fps
260 JHP start 4.6 712 fps max 5.0 786 fps

this should give you a good idea of where to start have fun enjoy worst thing is getting a really good load then not being able to buy the powder any more!!!

supermag
 
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Back in the day before LeBaron came to Ottawa, used to pack the wife in the car and head east. Stop in at Higginsons, then off to Montreal. Do Lebaron get some things. Go to Tony's for powder, 296 for the 22Hornet. Go to Checkmate Sports to look around for odds and ends, drop by Baron Sports. Sorry to hear Tony's is gone.
 
When 452AA was a popular pistol powder for the IPSC crowd, there were allegations that it has some negative temperature co-efficient issues. i.e. cartridge velocities could *drop* as the temperatures rose. Just something to keep in mind if you have an IPSC power factor floor to acheive and are loading "on the edge" of the velocity threshold.
 
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