Winchester 94 windage sight is way off center?
- Thread starter 45C
- Start date
My brother's post '64 M94 was like that. The rear sight was drifted so far to the right to get it zeroed, it was almost falling off the barrel. Replaced it with a Williams FP peep, and eventually a scope. I have no idea what the cause was.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Location
- Western Manitoba
So, if you are "sighted in", that means the notch on rear sight (not the dovetail on the barrel) and the front sight bead, line up with where that barrel is throwing bullets - you say at 50 yards. Could be a bent barrel - only need perhaps one bullet length at muzzle - is where the bullets will go - bore centre line can be bent like banana and still throw bullets to same place. Could be ding in muzzle causing bullets to deflect. Could be front sight offset the other way in its dovetail? As mentioned above in Post #3 and #5, could be a bent rear sight body. Could be the adjustable plate for rear sight notch is not centered in the rear sight body?
From your picture - is as if that rear sight body is twisted on that barrel - so perhaps the rear sight body connection to the male dovetail has been bent?
I have a Schultz and Larsen Model 61 .22 Long Rifle Target Rifle - was made back in the day for 50 meter bullseye competition - the front and rear aperture sights are deliberately off set to the left of the bore line. So it will have vertical divergence for the bullet's trajectory, and also windage divergence between sight line and bore line - hence can only be sighted in at one range - 50 meters as designed. Shorter range than that, bullets hit right of point of aim; longer range than that, bullets hit left of point of aim. The "x" ring, or "V-bull" is smaller than .22 bullet hole - 10 point ring is about .44" - those shooters, I presume, were unusually fussy about very precise "sighting in".
You might want to try a couple or three shots at 100 or 150 yards, and see where your group is. Your group might be centered, or it might not be. I would expect the group to be somewhat lower - I would not worry about elevation - it is the left/right change that you might want to find out whether that exists or not. And once you increase the range, also will start to see wind effects - that might want to blow your bullets one way or the other - so might want a wind flag or two - or pick a noticeably calm time of day?
From your picture - is as if that rear sight body is twisted on that barrel - so perhaps the rear sight body connection to the male dovetail has been bent?
I have a Schultz and Larsen Model 61 .22 Long Rifle Target Rifle - was made back in the day for 50 meter bullseye competition - the front and rear aperture sights are deliberately off set to the left of the bore line. So it will have vertical divergence for the bullet's trajectory, and also windage divergence between sight line and bore line - hence can only be sighted in at one range - 50 meters as designed. Shorter range than that, bullets hit right of point of aim; longer range than that, bullets hit left of point of aim. The "x" ring, or "V-bull" is smaller than .22 bullet hole - 10 point ring is about .44" - those shooters, I presume, were unusually fussy about very precise "sighting in".
You might want to try a couple or three shots at 100 or 150 yards, and see where your group is. Your group might be centered, or it might not be. I would expect the group to be somewhat lower - I would not worry about elevation - it is the left/right change that you might want to find out whether that exists or not. And once you increase the range, also will start to see wind effects - that might want to blow your bullets one way or the other - so might want a wind flag or two - or pick a noticeably calm time of day?
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fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Might not be the site placement at all, could be your rear butt stock is milled slightly offset or crooked on the tang and also could be how you lay your cheek on the stock if your leaning over top more than someone else the sites have to be moved to the side more than usual to accommodate your posture
View attachment 616776View attachment 616777I get a perfect cheek weld.
The back notch lines up perfectly with the front bead.
Stock and barrel looks straight.
Gotta be a bent dovetail??
The back notch lines up perfectly with the front bead.
Stock and barrel looks straight.
Gotta be a bent dovetail??
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Your first picture in Post #10 looks to me that the rear sight notch is very close to centre on your barrel - hence, I would suspect that your male dovetail and the rear sight body are no longer are right angles to each other - aka "bent". As mentioned above in other posts - is where the rear sight notch is that matters - the rest of it - the dovetail, etc. have nothing to do with the "aiming" part.
Ok
I had to drift the front dovetail over that much to get it sighted in as it was shooting about 3 inches to the left.
Are you saying that I should have moved the rear notch ? And not drifted the dove tail ?
I was left a pile of guns when my father in law died. One was a 94 that could shoot around corners. I wondered why the front sight was 99% to the right and the rear was 99% to the left.
I then remembered my F-I-L told me a few years ago that he had laid a Winchester against a truck bumper to take a crap in the woods. Of course as soon as he got his pants down, he heard his buddy's truck start up and drive off. Ran over the gun. He sent it to a gunsmith but I could still see the bend in the barrel to the eye when I first looked at it. His brother said he'd take it, so off it went!!
I then remembered my F-I-L told me a few years ago that he had laid a Winchester against a truck bumper to take a crap in the woods. Of course as soon as he got his pants down, he heard his buddy's truck start up and drive off. Ran over the gun. He sent it to a gunsmith but I could still see the bend in the barrel to the eye when I first looked at it. His brother said he'd take it, so off it went!!
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Bent barrels can most definitely be made straight again, within reason - my brother rolled his snowmobile and seriously bent the barrel on a Model 70 in 300 Win Mag - Corlane's, in Dawson Creek, B.C., straightened it and it shoots true on the distance at the rifle range in Grande Cache, Alta., and out to 600 yards on an impromptu set up they have in the mountains.
Through my own stupidity, I bent a 308 Win barrel on a Rem 788 - I have old gunsmith books by Clyde Baker and James Virgil Howe - one or other has pictures of barrel straightening being done in Anschutz factory and Remington factory - using shadow lines from straight edge seen through the rifled bore. Their version of "straight" is the bore - do not appear to care what outside of barrel looks like. I did straighten that 308 Win barrel - used the body from a jack-all as a strong back and some squeeze clamp "Irwin Quick Grip" set up either to squeeze or to push as needed - but checking with that shadow line thing to verify progress or not.
From shortening another Rem 788 barrel (a 243 Win), is apparent to eye - without measuring - that the bore is NOT centered within that barrel - yet I have shot many 3/4" and less 100 yard groups with that rifle - after I sawed it off - and knew full well, at that time, that the bore was not in centre of that barrel. That one has a 90 degree to the bore crown - no clue if that matters - I definitely quit messing with it, once the groups went less than one inch in size at 100 yards.
Through my own stupidity, I bent a 308 Win barrel on a Rem 788 - I have old gunsmith books by Clyde Baker and James Virgil Howe - one or other has pictures of barrel straightening being done in Anschutz factory and Remington factory - using shadow lines from straight edge seen through the rifled bore. Their version of "straight" is the bore - do not appear to care what outside of barrel looks like. I did straighten that 308 Win barrel - used the body from a jack-all as a strong back and some squeeze clamp "Irwin Quick Grip" set up either to squeeze or to push as needed - but checking with that shadow line thing to verify progress or not.
From shortening another Rem 788 barrel (a 243 Win), is apparent to eye - without measuring - that the bore is NOT centered within that barrel - yet I have shot many 3/4" and less 100 yard groups with that rifle - after I sawed it off - and knew full well, at that time, that the bore was not in centre of that barrel. That one has a 90 degree to the bore crown - no clue if that matters - I definitely quit messing with it, once the groups went less than one inch in size at 100 yards.
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View attachment 616960View attachment 616959So it appears as though the dove tail drifted quite a bit , but not the notch.
Looks like it kinda twisted a bit.
I’m gonna check the barrel tonight.
I don’t think the barrel is bent though.
Looks like it kinda twisted a bit.
I’m gonna check the barrel tonight.
I don’t think the barrel is bent though.
Your dovetail is not cut at right angle to the barrel. The sight looks straight its just sitting crooked on the barrel. Its possible the part of the sight that goes in the dovetail is not made square with the rest of the sight i guess. Either one of them is making your sight sit crooked
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