Winchester M1's, yay or nye?
- Thread starter azn_hitman
- Start date
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Buy, enjoy it, and if it offends you, sell it. The retail price of a USGI Garand these days is between $450 and $750.
The WWII Garand lines at Winchester were an embarrassment. The quality control was horribly screwed up and deliveries well behind schedule. Springfield sent their inspectors and managers to help improve the quality. I have seen mentins that those jigs and tooling were the ones sold to Italy to make Bredas and Berettas ten years after VE Day.
From my point of view the allure of a Winchester doesn't outweigh the sight of scratchy dull tool marks on a Winchester Garand.
The WWII Garand lines at Winchester were an embarrassment. The quality control was horribly screwed up and deliveries well behind schedule. Springfield sent their inspectors and managers to help improve the quality. I have seen mentins that those jigs and tooling were the ones sold to Italy to make Bredas and Berettas ten years after VE Day.
From my point of view the allure of a Winchester doesn't outweigh the sight of scratchy dull tool marks on a Winchester Garand.
maple_leaf_eh said:
Tool marks on a wartime production rifle is pretty much the norm, no matter what country made them.
You have to remember that it was the US Gov. that was doing the QC, if rifles or parts didn't meet their criteria they were scrapped. In this respect, all USGI M1's are equally durable, safe, reliable, etc.
Winchester M1 Garands
I've always had a soft spot for Winchester M1's.....
UNTIL.....
I wanted to build up a shooter, keeper (yah, right ), and a source of my pride and joy.
I bought a couple of the Danish Winchester marked recievers with rebarreling projects in mind. Life was good until I had to screw on a Douglas Hvy Match barrel. For those of you who watched me / us try to rebarrel and index this barrel on a reciever , you are aware of the "timing" process using levels and parallels. If you are unsure, take a look at the sticky posted by Skullboy on rebarreling his rifle.... or have a look at my DVD (I think...)
Remember that throughout the war, Winchester folks hardly upgraded their tooling to keep up with SA's drawing revisions. If you look carefully at the starboard side of your M1 reciever just beneath the op rod track you will see the D######- YY stamped. The YY numbers represent the drawing revision number. I'm pulling this information from Scott Duff's book (downstairs and I'm upstairs right now) and my fading memory.
Springfield Armory was up to (can't quite recall exactly) # 35 ? drawing revisions by the end of the war. Winchesters were still using drawing revision (really can't recall as I sit here and I'm too lazy to walk downstairs) # 2... ish.... I believe.
The long and short of the argument is coming. Also.... Onebarfly is my witness.....
The very last 1/2 degree of rotation is a biaaaatch to index without the Douglas Hvy barrel rotating in my hvy duty 6" vise. I've felt that the Winchester recievers were slightly out of spec in the context of upgrading to a Douglas Premium XX barrel. Before you flame me... understand this !
I've lost count of the number of M1's I've built in 20 years, all of them with Douglas barrels from Brownell's (Gene Barnett finished them... they are all to spec). I've had success building and then competing with MY upgraded M1's made by IHC, Harrington & Richardson (American competitors freaked on me ), and Springfields. ONLY Winchesters did not like to index smoothly and without a (BIG) fight. I was only successful re-barreling ONE Winchester and it's floating around Ontario with a Boyd's Coffee Laminated stock. It was my best work ever (and hardest with the most profanity).
Now, OTOH, if you are swapping barrels (USGI with USGI in .30-06) then by all means grab a Winnie and be happy. But if you are anal like me and you really insist on building a .308 M1 with a match quality barrel like Douglas, Obermyer, Hart (there are a few in the US), or Krieger (many, many M1 Garands with these premium barrels) , then save yourself the grief and use a Springfield since they are abundant. Don't be a fool like me and rebarrel a Harrington & Richardson (collector value) then compete at Camp Perry with it and the 'Mericans voiced their displeasure seeing a collector rifle show up on the line... HEY, I got a great deal on this one ! What the heck did I know back in 1987 ?
Hope this helps !
Barney
I've always had a soft spot for Winchester M1's.....
UNTIL.....
I wanted to build up a shooter, keeper (yah, right
), and a source of my pride and joy. I bought a couple of the Danish Winchester marked recievers with rebarreling projects in mind. Life was good until I had to screw on a Douglas Hvy Match barrel. For those of you who watched me / us try to rebarrel and index this barrel on a reciever , you are aware of the "timing" process using levels and parallels.
If you are unsure, take a look at the sticky posted by Skullboy on rebarreling his rifle.... or have a look at my DVD (I think...)Remember that throughout the war, Winchester folks hardly upgraded their tooling to keep up with SA's drawing revisions. If you look carefully at the starboard side of your M1 reciever just beneath the op rod track you will see the D######- YY stamped. The YY numbers represent the drawing revision number. I'm pulling this information from Scott Duff's book (downstairs and I'm upstairs right now) and my fading memory.
Springfield Armory was up to (can't quite recall exactly) # 35 ?
drawing revisions by the end of the war. Winchesters were still using drawing revision (really can't recall as I sit here and I'm too lazy to walk downstairs) # 2... ish.... I believe.The long and short of the argument is coming. Also.... Onebarfly is my witness.....
The very last 1/2 degree of rotation is a biaaaatch to index without the Douglas Hvy barrel rotating in my hvy duty 6" vise. I've felt that the Winchester recievers were slightly out of spec in the context of upgrading to a Douglas Premium XX barrel. Before you flame me... understand this !
I've lost count of the number of M1's I've built in 20 years, all of them with Douglas barrels from Brownell's (Gene Barnett finished them... they are all to spec). I've had success building and then competing with MY upgraded M1's made by IHC, Harrington & Richardson (American competitors freaked on me
), and Springfields. ONLY Winchesters did not like to index smoothly and without a (BIG) fight. I was only successful re-barreling ONE Winchester and it's floating around Ontario with a Boyd's Coffee Laminated stock. It was my best work ever (and hardest with the most profanity). Now, OTOH, if you are swapping barrels (USGI with USGI in .30-06) then by all means grab a Winnie and be happy. But if you are anal like me and you really insist on building a .308 M1 with a match quality barrel like Douglas, Obermyer, Hart (there are a few in the US), or Krieger (many, many M1 Garands with these premium barrels) , then save yourself the grief and use a Springfield since they are abundant. Don't be a fool like me and rebarrel a Harrington & Richardson (collector value) then compete at Camp Perry with it and the 'Mericans voiced their displeasure seeing a collector rifle show up on the line... HEY, I got a great deal on this one !
What the heck did I know back in 1987 ? Hope this helps !
Barney
OneBarfly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes, I like to think that my 280 pound frame contributed to the failure of Hungry's last bench vice 
I was warned prior to jumping up-and-down on the wrench that putting a commercial .308 barrel on the Winnie receiver *might* be difficult - gave up real quick and just ended up putting a VAR Danish barrel on her instead
I was warned prior to jumping up-and-down on the wrench that putting a commercial .308 barrel on the Winnie receiver *might* be difficult - gave up real quick and just ended up putting a VAR Danish barrel on her instead 
I've heard about the rebarrelling issues with them , the guys who posted above would know about that aparently . I had a Danish M1D sniper rifle , it was in great shape and a joy to shoot , never had any problems or concerns with it . I wish I kept that rifle .
I have two Winchesters and they are good examples of M1s. If you decide to re-barrel it, just send it to Hungry
As a side note, and not directly related to the M1, being a fellow who draws for a living, just because a drawing has a revision number, does not nessecarily mean an improvement was made. In alot of cases they are a cost savings measure.
As a side note, and not directly related to the M1, being a fellow who draws for a living, just because a drawing has a revision number, does not nessecarily mean an improvement was made. In alot of cases they are a cost savings measure.
