Winchester M70 pre 64...the best there is?

I have a bunch of pre-64's and like them.

I don't believe I'd spend the effort to make a case for them being the best there is, but I'd be interested in hearing the cases for other available actions being the best.

Generally, I'm in agreement with Bill Leeper regarding the M98, although by the time you have a proper safety, trigger, mag box, etc you are getting pricey in comparison to stripping a pre-64 or classic M70 action.

The Montana 1999 at least in concept is probably my pick for the 'best' action for a robust and reliable hunting rifle, mainly because it addresses the gas handling and bolt stop issues with the M70, is reasonably priced and available off-the-shelf.
 
Lots of myth and mystery, but in all reality, the new ones are better, though they lack the mystique.

The Montana M1999 is probably the next greatest version of the M70.
 
Truth be told, there is a lot about the original Kimber of Oregon M89 like Battle Rivers that just may make it the best action, at least in design. Just not many around for people to compare.
 
Someone is always making a statement to the effect that "the new ones are better". I can't help but wonder, "Better in what way?"
Is it the brazed on bolt handle that makes it better? Perhaps the elimination of the machined feed rails tips the scale in favour of those new actions. Maybe the use of cast parts.
Much has been made over the years of the "better steel" used in the post-64 actions. Yet, it was a post-64 action shown by Jim Dubell which had both locking lugs broken off!
The real truth is that the new actions are a decent example of adapting modern ( read; cost effective) manufacturing methods to simulate the old action.
Today's best? There aren't any. All those in contention start out well then crash at some point. I think the BRNO ZKK actions would have been the best except they fell apart when it came to designing a trigger system. It seemed like they paid the engineer by the piece. Why they would do such a thing when good trigger designd were out there already is hard to figure. Apart from that they had it all. Good steel. M98 breech. M70 mag well. M70 type bolt. Integral scope bases (unfortunately, for which there were no rings commonly available) and who could forget that really neat pop-up peep sight?
Perfect actions vary, of course, according to their intended purpose. A target rifle action has different requirements than a hunting action, for instance. There have been a few actions over the years which achieved "bests" however,
The best breeching system for a CRF action would be the Japanese Arisaka (copied by Dakota and Kimber). The Arisaka also had, perhaps, the best ejector. The best striker/firing pin honours would go to the 98 mauser. Best extractor to the M70. Best trigger system in the reliability category would be the military 98 (I actually like this type of trigger just fineon my own hunting rifles). Best in the "Really nice to work with and end up with a great trigger" category might be the M70 but Timney/ Jaeger, Dayton Traister types for various rifles are even better. Best safety? Probably the Mauser. I actually like the Buehler type of safety better than the 3 position ones although I do have some of those as well. The Buehler is simple and reliable.
Ultimately, the real truth is that any action which functions as intended is a good action regardless of it's design features or method of manufacture. After all, I still hunt quite a bit with a Lee Enfield and it never lets me down. Regards, Bill.
 
Bill, I've kept my mouth shut because I don't know enough to make a statement. But I have a couple of questions: What do you think of the new Mauser and Magnum Mauser actions being built by Mauser? There are some other Magnum Mauser manufacturers like Johansen or Hartmann & Weiss? i know they are big $, but money wasn't part of the question.
 
I guess in reality, the only "better" the classic action has over the pre 64 is its readily available and affordable.
Everything else seems 6 of one, half dozen of another.
But now I know the differences between the two. Thanks for the lesson Bill.
U gotta post here more often...
 
I have two in '06

Rohann said:
What I wouldn't do for a pre-'64 Winchester in .308 or '-06...

-Rohann
Click to expand...

I'm new to this site (just found it tonight) and spotted this topic right away. I don't know as much about rifles as you guys do but i do know my pre '64 is the best rifle I've ever used. I can just hit what I shoot at with it. It groups better than my brownings or remingtons (all stock). I picked it up when I rewired a guys house for him and he traded it off for the labour. ($300.)

The second one I got when I was walking out of the woods at dusk when I met this guy. It was almost dark and when we crossed a fence, he asked me to hold his rifle. Even though it was dark and I couldn't see the gun, I knew what it was as soon as I touched it. After a few weeks of bugging him I got it for $300. too. I going to get a fibergalss stock put on it and bedded also. sam Adams is going to do it. he has built sniper rifles for many police forces in canada and the US.

I admitt, much of it is probably hype, but there is no doubt they are still fine rifles.
 
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