Winchester Model 12 - Value ?

Nabs

Nabs

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I have a Winchester model 12, 12 gauge in 2 3/4 inch with full choke. Matching numbers and in good condition overall. Serial number places production around 1941.

I used it for trap and skeet a few times and it worked well enough.

Any idea what this could be worth in the market these days ?

Thanks.
 
High polish blue is still intact on the metal though there are areas where is it somewhat worn. Wood is in great condition. Most of the high glossy finish on the wood is rubbed off but still intact on the hand grip and some areas of the butt stock. The butt stock also retains the winchester repeating arms rubber butt pad.

I have these two pictures I took today, let me know if you need any specific areas.

IMG_9724.jpg


IMG_9727.jpg
 
Just follow EE on this forum. Model 12's don't go for very much. Yours is not in top shape plus it is the plain barrel plus it is the most common gauge. You will be lucky to see $275.00 in my opinion. I had a super x, super speed 3" with low rib and it went for $400.00 about a month or so ago. There is a seller that has a 3" heavy duck for sale right now in supposedly 95 or 98% condition. It's listed at $695.00 and not marked as sold yet.
 
StevieK said:
does a poly choke on the model 12 increase or decrease the value?
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Poly choke is not popular these days. It will drop the value of most vintage guns of any value.

Poly chokes are, believe it or not, steel shot compatable though. The older ones were silver soldered onto barrels and have the habit of "shooting off" should large shot be fired through them. I was told nothing larger than #3 and never full.

Modern Polys are threaded on and the company claims them to be fully steel compatable. They stated that steel should not be fired through the full or X full setting as well.
 
gunsaholic said:
Most people it will decrease the value. Although I believe there might have been the odd gun that came from the factory with a poly choke. I could be wrong on that.
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When a Poly-Choke or a Cutts Compensator was installed by Winchester, the factory did not stamp a choke marking on the barrel script on the left side of the barrel near the receiver.

Some folks like a Poly-Choke, but I'm not one of them.
 
Nabs said:
High polish blue is still intact on the metal though there are areas where is it somewhat worn. Wood is in great condition. Most of the high glossy finish on the wood is rubbed off but still intact on the hand grip and some areas of the butt stock. The butt stock also retains the winchester repeating arms rubber butt pad.

I have these two pictures I took today, let me know if you need any specific areas.

IMG_9724.jpg


IMG_9727.jpg
Click to expand...

Your M12 looks to be in decent condition for a 70 year old shotgun. it rates as a pre-war model and as such should have wavey lines in the sight groove of the receiver. In 1940, the patent information script on the right rear of the barrel was eliminated as the patents had expired. Pre-wars are worth a premium over post war M12's and the last few production years are worth a tad less than the early post war and early 1950 M12's.

Model 12's as they age develope rear bolt droop and this creates wear on the lock-up notch on the top of the receiver. You can check by pushing up on the rear of the bolt with your hole finger through the shell lifter. If the bolt moves up when you press on it, the action slide knub is worn. Open the bolt and check the lock-up notch and feel with your finger if there's a burr and if it's been beat rearward.

The second point to check on Model 12's is the take-down bushing on the receiver extension. The bushing is threaded on the receiver end of the barrel and is what joins the receiver extension to the receiver on the take-down feature of a Model 12. The more the gun has been taken down the more it wears creating looseness between the receiver and the receiver extension. The take-down bushing is adjustable by loosening the lock screw and turning the bushing up to the next notch. As the bushing runs out of adjustment, there's tighter bushings available from size 0 to around size 6.

All this info is what determines what a Model 12 is worth. Yours appears to have the factory buttplate, and shows honest wear wih no refinishing. If the bolt locks up tight to the receiver and the take-down bushing is still on the first or second notch; you have a Model 12 worth a premium over ones with a recoil pad, refinished or rust pitted, poly-choked and on and on. You see where I'm going here. All this determines value to someone that knows what to look for. From the 1,960,000 some odd Model 12's made, how many remain in good original condition? One in excellent original condition is somewhat of a rarity.

Value = Rarity, Originality and Condition . . . Factor this into the state of the economy, selling venue and your willingness to be patient is what usually sets the selling price. Why not keep it, they're a fine shotgun that most likely will never be made again and the way they're being parted out and sold off in pieces on ebay, it won't be long until a decent original Model 12 will be hard to find..
 
Alright, I had a look at my Model 12 and checked for the items that you mentioned, Rod.

The bolt is quite sturdy, it does not move up or wiggle at all when I press from the follower underside. I also cannot see or feel any burrs or bends in the lock up notch.

I have not taken this Model 12 down myself as it was quite clean when I got it. The left side of the receiver where the take down looks to take place has some wear marks so I imagine it has been done before me. It does wiggle a little bit when I grab hold of the portion forward of the receiver and twist left and right, however it still feels tight. I have attached a picture of the area as well.

I also had a look on the barrel and I was incorrect about the patent information being present. The "Made in New Haven, Conn.", Winchester trade mark, and shotgun information are still present and clear to read.

You are right, these shotguns are well made. I would rather not sell it but if times this September demand it to fund college, I may have to. Since shotguns are not my area of expertise, I greatly appreciate the comments on it's value.

IMG_9732.jpg
 
Nabs said:
Alright, I had a look at my Model 12 and checked for the items that you mentioned, Rod.

The bolt is quite sturdy, it does not move up or wiggle at all when I press from the follower underside. I also cannot see or feel any burrs or bends in the lock up notch.

I have not taken this Model 12 down myself as it was quite clean when I got it. The left side of the receiver where the take down looks to take place has some wear marks so I imagine it has been done before me. It does wiggle a little bit when I grab hold of the portion forward of the receiver and twist left and right, however it still feels tight. I have attached a picture of the area as well.

I also had a look on the barrel and I was incorrect about the patent information being present. The "Made in New Haven, Conn.", Winchester trade mark, and shotgun information are still present and clear to read.

You are right, these shotguns are well made. I would rather not sell it but if times this September demand it to fund college, I may have to. Since shotguns are not my area of expertise, I greatly appreciate the comments on it's value.

IMG_9732.jpg
Click to expand...

If you have any mechanical background then tear down a M12. They are a machining work of art and you will have great respect for the shotgun and the long defunct company that made them. Finest pump shotgun ever made IMO.

Nabs, yours is a plane jane field grade with nothing special other than being in original shape. It has the usual handling wear of a gun used for many years. Most field guns have been carried and handled a lot but have had relitively low numbers of rounds put through them.

For 300 bucks I would grab another like that any day. Send them off to Simmons in Kansas where they replace worn parts, time, install a Simmons rib, re-blue and finish with semi fancy lumber for about 1200 bucks:).
 
The gouges on the left front of the receiver are from careless takedown. I enlarged your photo and it appears the action slide handle retaining spring is missing. This flat spring is positioned at the front of the magazing and fits between the top of the mag tube and the front barrel band. Most folks don't understand what this flat spring is for. It's main purpose, other than keeping the fit snug between the mag tube and the barrel band, is during the takedown proceedure. I'm not certain if you are familar with taking the gun down but when the action slide is moved forward, on takedown, the action slide goes forward beyond normal and the action slide disengages the receiver. The spring is to help hold the action slide assembly forward enough to clear the receiver on takedown and especially on re-assembly. Without the spring, you must hold the action slide forward so the action slide bar and the knub do not gouge the front of the receiver on turning the receiver extension into the receiver. Those gouges are from careless re-assembly. Not a big deal, just a cosmetic issue. Everything adds up though on value. You should measure the choke to see if it coincides with the barrel marking as some Model 12's have been opened up for steel shot. The Model 12 was choked with paper shells and felt wad in mind. Plastic shells with the shot cup hold a tighter pattern and as such some have been opened up to IMP MOD. Even if it has, again, not a big deal and won't affect value to someone buying it as a shooter. Collectors are looking for 98% guns. When collecting any pre-64 Winchester, the term "Correct" means everything. Any alterations, build up improvements, add on ribs, fancy wood upgrades etc. etc. will decrease the value and any money spent on such proceedures is usually not recoverable. Your gun looks like an honest original field gun in decent condition. If the barrel adjustment bushing is still on the first or second notch and no issues with the gun, $325 to $425, would not be unreasonable and possibly slightly more if your not in a big hurry to sell it quick.


Another factor that determines value, especially on a decent Model 12, is the choke. The less common, the more the gun is worth. Most common is "FULL". . "MOD" is worth more than "FULL", and "IMP CYL and CLY" are worth more than both modified and Full chokes. Keep in mind that your Model 12 is a standard field grade model, which is the most common. If it had a factory solid raised rib or vented rib and fancy wood it would increase in value considerably. But then varification of originality comes into play again as there are so many built up Model 12's of one kind or another.

The pre-64 Model 12 was built from 1912 to 1964 as a production work horse and any collector value, at the time, was not a consideration. The factory records have been lost in a fire and most of the employees have passed on. We rely heavily on Dave Riffle's book and Goerge Madis' book. Even George has passed on.

Do you know how to take the Model 12 down? If not I'll explain the proceedure.
Anyways, take the gun down and check the adjustment bushing to see what notch it's on.
 
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