Winchester Model 12 Values

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pescador

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Wondering if i could get an opinion on 2 model 12 shotguns i know its hard to do without pics but im just looking for ballpark figures here. I have a very old friend turning 90, who wants to part with his shotguns he's owned since new. i told him i would buy them off of him for a fair price but the main reason i'm buying is sentimental value. me and him spent a lot of time together and i would love to have something of his. I saw these 2 guns previously years ago when i went to visit and we got on the topic of wing shooting. He lives in Ontario and i Live in BC so visits are spaced pretty far apart.

the first shotgun is a model 12 2 3/4 chamber with a 28" barrel and a fixed modified choke, blueing is nice and the wood looks great.

the second shotgun is a model 12 Heavy Duck 3" chamber with a fixed full choke, again blueing looks good and the wood is great.

So heres where it gets tricky. my friend had a terrible habit of electro penciling his full name on his toys, i just cant remember if he did it to the shotguns or not. He is convinced they are worth $2,000. Personally i dont care about his name being etched on them as it only adds to the sentimental value for me. but im also not willing to wildly over pay my buddy just so he can feel good about his guns going to a good home.

looking for an opinion on values, electro penciled value vs good condition collectible value of both guns. ill probably buy both and make an old man happy they are going to a good home. im thinking

$900 for the Heavy Duck and 500 for the Plane jane version without the electro pencil

and probably $500-700 for heavy duck with electro pencil and $350 bucks for the plane jane with electro pencil.

ill probably pay him the $1,400 even if he bastardized them. the man means a lot to me.

my other idea was to have him take his guns to get evaluated at a gun store and let them break the news to him that his guns aren't worth $2,000. that way im not the bad guy. anyways let me know how you think i should approach it.
 
Your estimated values are about double what you could buy them for at the big Easter gun show in Calgary....which really establishes market value. Just sayin'. He will have payed less than a hundred dollars for each of them when new. I would agree with you that he should have them evaluated locally by someone other than you for a dose of reality, then discuss prices.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Your estimated values are about double what you could buy them for at the big Easter gun show in Calgary....which really establishes market value. Just sayin'. He will have payed less than a hundred dollars for each of them when new. I would agree with you that he should have them evaluated locally by someone other than you for a dose of reality, then discuss prices.
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Im just just going off of EE and ####### prices. I owned one with a "polychoke" years ago and i paid 300 and sold it for 350. So if nice versions are selling at the Calgary gun show for 250 you could make a small fortune buying and reselling on the EE.

Im sure he paid $100 dollars for them back in the day but its all relative. he was probably earning $1.25 an hour and his house was probably $15,000 dollars. lol. i think one has to adjust for inflation to make a fair price. this happens with all "collectible" things, a corvette in 1966 was $4,200 brand new, you would be shocked to see current values my dude. let me tell you. its nowhere near 4 grand

i do agree that a third party should assess them so that all parties are satisfied.
 
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The Modified barrel Model 12 is worth more than your run of the mill full choke gun.
Any time you have a $350 heavy duck in good shape, the gun wouldn't last 10 seconds on the gun show table.
The $2k estimate is way high, but some estimates here seem less than fair, if the condition is VG or better.
Full choke plain barrel 12 gauge Model 12 shotguns are too common and prices are depressed.
 
Without proper photos and key information it's tough to advise a price. Model 12's can go anywhere from $200 to $20,000 depending on gauge, pre-war/postwar, solid rib/vent rib/no rib, factory engraving, originality, condition, model etc. etc. all factored into the state of the economy.

For plain barrel, 12 ga, M12's that you want to use: bolt droop and position of take down bushing is important. A Model 12 is a very rugged shotgun that can be used and put up wet and still keep shooting even with components missing but over time when they are abused, not cleaned and lubricated but run dry and dirty they sometimes develop excessive bolt droop. Another point of wear to check is the position of the take down bushing. From continual take down of a dirty gun the bushing is adjusted to take up the wear and over time there's no move notches remaining.
 
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saskbooknut said:
The Modified barrel Model 12 is worth more than your run of the mill full choke gun.
Any time you have a $350 heavy duck in good shape, the gun wouldn't last 10 seconds on the gun show table.
The $2k estimate is way high, but some estimates here seem less than fair, if the condition is VG or better.
Full choke plain barrel 12 gauge Model 12 shotguns are too common and prices are depressed.
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Agree. A heavy duck in nice condition wouldn't last 10 minutes listed at $350.00 to $400.00. The modified choke gun wouldn't last long at $300.00 either if in nice condition.
 
Rod said:
Without proper photos and key information it's tough to advise a price. Model 12's can go anywhere from $200 to $20,000 depending on gauge, pre-war/postwar, solid rib/vent rib/no rib, factory engraving, originality, condition, model etc. etc. all factored into the state of the economy.

For plain barrel, 12 ga, M12's that you want to use: bolt droop and position of take down bushing is important. A Model 12 is a very rugged shotgun that can be used and put up wet and still keep shooting even with components missing but over time when they are abused, not cleaned and lubricated but run dry and dirty they sometimes develop excessive bolt droop. Another point of wear to check is the position of the take down bushing. From continual take down of a dirty gun the bushing is adjusted to take up the wear and over time there's no move notches remaining.
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I agree the mechanical condition needs to be factored in... I think the vast majority of old model 12's that have been used a lot will have expensive problems to make the functioning correct and like new or slightly used.

I also agree he should take them to a gun store and ask them to buy them and see what they will pay... he is in for a big shock.
 
Thanks guys, unfortunately pictures are impossible at the moment. the guns are provinces away from me and my buddy doesn't know how to run a computer or smart phone. i'll probably take him to a gun store and have them assess the value when i go down to visit. like i said. i love the man but i wont wildly overpay just because he thinks they are worth a small fortune. only thing i did was rack the action on both guns and hold them for a brief period of time probably 7 years ago now. They looked great and had really nice bluing. definitely babied, and cleaned well both guns do not have vented ribs.

and if anyone has a line on $250 - 300 dollar model 12's please let me know. i'll buy a couple.lol
 
guntech said:
I agree the mechanical condition needs to be factored in... I think the vast majority of old model 12's that have been used a lot will have expensive problems to make the functioning correct and like new or slightly used.

I also agree he should take them to a gun store and ask them to buy them and see what they will pay... he is in for a big shock.
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yeah when i asked how much he wanted i was taken aback. I didn't want to be the one to tell him. they are in nice condition but they are field grade guns. not trap models or anything like that. and of course theres the electro pencil factor as well.

I owned a model 12 years ago for trap shooting. i can safely say i put over 2500 rounds of trap loads through it. and never had a malfunction/issue. my buddy used them almost exclusively for hunting so they would have been mainly carried in the field and not fired constantly. i dont think it will have issues making it function correctly. ive seen some pretty rough looking guns function just fine.
 
I don’t think a gun shop will offer more than $300 for the mod. (70% of retail). Model 12s are slow to move in the last years, with some odd one bringing good money fast. My idea is $350&450 maybe add a few bucks more if it’s worth it to you.
 
pescador said:
yeah when i asked how much he wanted i was taken aback. I didn't want to be the one to tell him. they are in nice condition but they are field grade guns. not trap models or anything like that. and of course theres the electro pencil factor as well.

I owned a model 12 years ago for trap shooting. i can safely say i put over 2500 rounds of trap loads through it. and never had a malfunction/issue. my buddy used them almost exclusively for hunting so they would have been mainly carried in the field and not fired constantly. i dont think it will have issues making it function correctly. ive seen some pretty rough looking guns function just fine.
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As far as functioning correctly you can test it quite easily.. on an empty chamber and the safety not engaged, and the trigger held in the fire position, very slowly close the action and observe where the bolt is when the hammer is released... the bolt should be fully closed with the rear of the bolt up in the action fully locked... also observe low the back of the bolt is in the locking area of the receiver... the more worn it is the lower it sits and jumps up on firing... you can reach in and feel a real 'lip' on worn actions... the other thing is the action release lever... does it unlock a cocked action smoothly... does the safety engage and work properly. Many model 12's with the action release altered for easier opening will let the hammer fall well before the bolt is in the locked up position...

The other thing to remember is that these two guns are for lead shot target shooting. Alterations are required if you want to use steel shot for hunting... that affects value in today's market.
 
guntech said:
As far as functioning correctly you can test it quite easily.. on an empty chamber and the safety not engaged, and the trigger held in the fire position, very slowly close the action and observe where the bolt is when the hammer is released... the bolt should be fully closed with the rear of the bolt up in the action fully locked... also observe low the back of the bolt is in the locking area of the receiver... the more worn it is the lower it sits and jumps up on firing... you can reach in and feel a real 'lip' on worn actions... the other thing is the action release lever... does it unlock a cocked action smoothly... does the safety engage and work properly. Many model 12's with the action release altered for easier opening will let the hammer fall well before the bolt is in the locked up position...

The other thing to remember is that these two guns are for lead shot target shooting. Alterations are required if you want to use steel shot for hunting... that affects value in today's market.
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thanks ill keep those things in mind. He only ever shot lead and Bismuth through it. if i do get my hands on them ill try to remember to post some pics. personally i would use them to hunt with. Im chasing turkeys this year so ill probably pack the heavy duck. i dont think they will have any significant collector value.
 
I did gun shoes for 20 yrs every weekend Manitoba sask and Alberta seen many a 3” duck gun sit at show after show after show at 400$ . And plain field guns 200-300$ lots of 3” guns on EE sit at 500-600$
As this thread is being written Elwood Epps 3” duck gun 499.00 translates 450 purchase price and a nice plain bbl restocked with nice maple 349.00 both still for sale . Best list examples or the EE police will be out in full force . The best store in the country as far as correct pricing
 
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