Winchester Model 12

Beat up worn down versions with plain barrels and dinged up wood sell for $350 routinely. Often needing shipping on top of that price. It may not be a factory original but you wont find one in that condition with a simmons rib and that kind of wood for under $750 asking price very often. You got a good deal on a good pretty gun
 
struff55 said:
You basically paid what is worth it is a built gun not factory.
Looks like fagen bishop wood and Simmons rib
Wood could possibly b herters
Looks to b in nice condition as far as cosmetics
Click to expand...

struff is generally spot on with his price and condition est. You have a nice piece at a fair price.
 
Last edited:
warzaw said:
struff is generally spot on with his price and condition est. You have a nice piece at a fair price.
Click to expand...

Tried it yesterday after my range course, aside from not being used to it and cycling a live round while loading, it works great. Not really used to a full choke on trap, but when you do catch one, it's very satisfying. Had 18/25 first time with this shotgun. Only hit 11/25 with my O/U 101, but I really wasn't used to that one.
 
You can examine it to see how worn the action is... with the action fully open inspect inside at the top of the action where the breech bolt locks up... feel with a finger if there is a 'lip' of steel at the rear of the locking lug recess, as if the locking lug has pounded back... if it has been shot a lot this occurs...

Another thing to check (with out ammo) is at what point the trigger releases the hammer... with the action cocked and the gun not loaded, open the action using the release button... now with the breech bolt halfway back, hold the trigger in the fired position and very slowly move the pump ahead closing the action... it should hot release the hammer until the breech bolt is in the locked position fully up. Some time a worn gun will release the hammer before the breech bolt locks up if the hammer is held back. This model is capable of slam firing but it should not fire unless the bolt is fully locked.

Another thing to inspect is is how much the back of the bolt moves upward when the hammer is released... again with an unloaded gun, close the cocked action and and while watching the back of the breech bolt pull the trigger... the back of the breech should not jump much if any... one that jumps up a lot indicates a worn gun.

Another test is how the action release works... when depressed to open a cocked action it should also pull the hammer back and disengage the hammer from the trigger... So while the cocked action (unloaded) is closed, depress the action release and keep it depressed and pull the trigger. The hammer should not fall. Often this disconnector has been altered (or worn) and is not functioning correctly.

The Model 12 for a great number of years was overpriced. It a good old gun but extremely complicated and expensive to repair when worn. Being a reblue/rework/restock I think you paid a fair price if it all checks out per the tests I mentioned above.

I forgot about the safety... when engaged does it block the trigger pull correctly and when disengaged after testing still hold the gun unfired?
 
Last edited:
guntech said:
You can examine it to see how worn the action is... with the action fully open inspect inside at the top of the action where the breech bolt locks up... feel with a finger if there is a 'lip' of steel at the rear of the locking lug recess, as if the locking lug has pounded back... if it has been shot a lot this occurs...

Another thing to check (with out ammo) is at what point the trigger releases the hammer... with the action cocked and the gun not loaded, open the action using the release button... now with the breech bolt halfway back, hold the trigger in the fired position and very slowly move the pump ahead closing the action... it should hot release the hammer until the breech bolt is in the locked position fully up. Some time a worn gun will release the hammer before the breech bolt locks up if the hammer is held back. This model is capable of slam firing but it should not fire unless the bolt is fully locked.

Another thing to inspect is is how much the back of the bolt moves upward when the hammer is released... again with an unloaded gun, close the cocked action and and while watching the back of the breech bolt pull the trigger... the back of the breech should not jump much if any... one that jumps up a lot indicates a worn gun.

Another test is how the action release works... when depressed to open a cocked action it should also pull the hammer back and disengage the hammer from the trigger... So while the cocked action (unloaded) is closed, depress the action release and keep it depressed and pull the trigger. The hammer should not fall. Often this disconnector has been altered (or worn) and is not functioning correctly.

The Model 12 for a great number of years was overpriced. It a good old gun but extremely complicated and expensive to repair when worn. Being a reblue/rework/restock I think you paid a fair price if it all checks out per the tests I mentioned above.

I forgot about the safety... when engaged does it block the trigger pull correctly and when disengaged after testing still hold the gun unfired?
Click to expand...

I checked where it allows firing before I brought it out yesterday, the slide has to be all the way forward. The safety is also in working condition. I'll check for any wear in the top of the action when I get home. It was okay after I fired a few rounds through, it was really damn cold when I was out there so I'm sure that wasn't helping much.
 
guntech said:
You can examine it to see how worn the action is... with the action fully open inspect inside at the top of the action where the breech bolt locks up... feel with a finger if there is a 'lip' of steel at the rear of the locking lug recess, as if the locking lug has pounded back... if it has been shot a lot this occurs...

Another thing to check (with out ammo) is at what point the trigger releases the hammer... with the action cocked and the gun not loaded, open the action using the release button... now with the breech bolt halfway back, hold the trigger in the fired position and very slowly move the pump ahead closing the action... it should hot release the hammer until the breech bolt is in the locked position fully up. Some time a worn gun will release the hammer before the breech bolt locks up if the hammer is held back. This model is capable of slam firing but it should not fire unless the bolt is fully locked.

Another thing to inspect is is how much the back of the bolt moves upward when the hammer is released... again with an unloaded gun, close the cocked action and and while watching the back of the breech bolt pull the trigger... the back of the breech should not jump much if any... one that jumps up a lot indicates a worn gun.

Another test is how the action release works... when depressed to open a cocked action it should also pull the hammer back and disengage the hammer from the trigger... So while the cocked action (unloaded) is closed, depress the action release and keep it depressed and pull the trigger. The hammer should not fall. Often this disconnector has been altered (or worn) and is not functioning correctly.

The Model 12 for a great number of years was overpriced. It a good old gun but extremely complicated and expensive to repair when worn. Being a reblue/rework/restock I think you paid a fair price if it all checks out per the tests I mentioned above.

I forgot about the safety... when engaged does it block the trigger pull correctly and when disengaged after testing still hold the gun unfired?
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with what you have said but can you honestly see anyone putting money into one like this that was worn out or had even one issue . I know I sure would not
Cheers
 
3macs1 said:
I agree 100% with what you have said but can you honestly see anyone putting money into one like this that was worn out or had even one issue . I know I sure would not
Cheers
Click to expand...

After all the work is done and it looks so good... you can wear it out and the looks don't change... my 'check list' is easily done in a few minutes and more of less lets you know the mechanical soundness. The vast majority of shooters haven't got a clue about Model 12's.
 
guntech said:
After all the work is done and it looks so good... you can wear it out and the looks don't change... my 'check list' is easily done in a few minutes and more of less lets you know the mechanical soundness. The vast majority of shooters haven't got a clue about Model 12's.
Click to expand...

Well I do and have never seen a bad one look this good after heavy shooting or that much money spent on a bad one
That is all I am saying
Cheers
 
3macs1 said:
Well I do and have never seen a bad one look this good after heavy shooting or that much money spent on a bad one
That is all I am saying
Cheers
Click to expand...

Well I wasn't suggesting this gun is worn out either... I simply stated how to check out the mechanical condition of a model 12. I have seen beat up 12's that were sound and a lot of worn out ones wearing nice wood and a fresh re blue. Two minutes of inspection is all it takes.
 
guntech said:
Well I wasn't suggesting this gun is worn out either... I simply stated how to check out the mechanical condition of a model 12. I have seen beat up 12's that were sound and a lot of worn out ones wearing nice wood and a fresh re blue. Two minutes of inspection is all it takes.
Click to expand...

And like I said earlier agree 100% but even outlined as you did do you think someone who has never owned one will understand. I have never seen a worn out one with a fresh blue but that is not something that is easy to get here either
I guess I am just old and cranky LOL
Take care
 
Funny I have one that as Dennis said is completely worn out.It is a 1959 Heavy Duck that a friend of mine's father shot to pieces. He had it re blued and some trigger work done but alas it was supposed to go to his grandson who does not want it ended up with me.It pretty much does not pass any of those tests mentioned and I would be loath to shoot it.But it looks great .Will dig it out and post a couple pics..
 
reddog said:
Funny I have one that as Dennis said is completely worn out.It is a 1959 Heavy Duck that a friend of mine's father shot to pieces. He had it re blued and some trigger work done but alas it was supposed to go to his grandson who does not want it ended up with me.It pretty much does not pass any of those tests mentioned and I would be loath to shoot it.But it looks great .Will dig it out and post a couple pics..
Click to expand...

Were the inspection/tests hard to understand or do? How long did it take?
 
guntech said:
Were the inspection/tests hard to understand or do? How long did it take?
Click to expand...

To someone who has never held / owned a model 12 before I would say YEP IMHO. If one did would not be asking if a good deal
How many guys work on their own guns today like we did and still do . Not too many that I know of. I get 870's in to clean for god sakes in 2022 owners cannot do it. Blows me away but hey money is money
 
Last edited:
3macs1 said:
To someone who has never held / owned a model 12 before I would say YEP IMHO. If one did would not be asking if a good deal
How many guys work on their own guns today like we did and still do . Not too many that I know of. I get 870's in to clean for god sakes in 2022 owners cannot do it. Blows me away but hey money is money
Click to expand...

870's in to clean? Really? It takes about 10 seconds to field strip one of those. I shoot with a guy once in a while with a Benelli semi auto, when he takes it apart to clean it he always ends up with short strokes and jamming, has to jam his knife into the action to clear a shell. Maybe it's from working with mechanical things so long but guns are very simple to reassemble.
I have a 930 that I do a quick clean on every time we go through a hundred rounds of trap loads (They're dirty as hell) and never had an issue.

I guess it just depends on how you grew up, on the farm if you couldn't fix it, you had to buy it and that often wasn't an option.
 
the spank said:
Simmons rib installs for Winchester wore the duckbill ramp on the trap, skeet and deluxe field grades. I've never seen the straight taper ramp on any except the sub-gauges? Thats not to say it didn't as anything was orderable with Winchester but anything Simmons did for Winchester for their over the counter guns fit the catalogue availability. That gun is wearing the same ramp my Simmons ribbed Model 12 wore. Early variant trap grades like the Black Diamond didn't always have TRAP stamped on them but most later models did right up until they quit making them in '64. It was usually stamped on the bottom of the gun on the underside of mag tube extension ahead of the indicator arrow near the receiver. When the Y series came out the TRAP stamp was again eliminated. One thing is for certain, there is A LOT of faked target, pigeon and other high grade model 12's out there and you have to be ultra thorough in your research when buying one if you're buying at full collector value in search of a collector gun. If you are just looking for a shooter well just treat them as such and pay what you feel you are comfy with. Either way that gun of the OP's is a real nice looking shooter.
Click to expand...

Your right Frank, I didn't notice that this gun doesn't have the duckbill ramp as does my M12 trap.
 
You couldn't buy the Simmons rib for what OP paid for the whole gun . The parts on that gun alone are worth more than he paid for it . Good deal in my books.
 
Last edited:
warzaw;[URL="tel:18666184" said:
18666184[/URL]]You couldn't buy the Simmons rib for what OP paid for the whole gun . The parts on that gun alone are worth more than he paid for it . Good deal in my books.
Click to expand...

The fact is he paid what it is worth. Maybe a bit less but not much. Upgrading with aftermarket high grade wood, ribs etc is lost $ when it comes to resale on standard model guns that are not collectors. It's a standard Model 12 that someone customized very nicely. The deal is that he saved himself a heap not being the one to pay for the upgrades.
 
Even without the upgrades the original parts trigger group slide barrel extension bolt and parts mag tube these parts have gotten very pricey lately even screws and hardware are like gold now days. I just finished two parts builds and without the help of some good members of this board the cost would have been out of sight .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom