Winchester Model 21 Intenal Memo Letter 1935

[the spank]

I cannot take credit for this but rather I am copying and posting this from a FB group I follow on American SxS shotguns. This was posted by the group admin. The first two people that came to mind after reading the internal memo letter were Cowtown Bill and Canvasback.

Early Issues with the Model 21 Beavertail Forearm - An Internal Communication within Winchester

In a continuing effort here at SASSS to highlight and bring to light the vast examples and uniquenesses of the side by side shotgun, its community and the history that it represents.
Here is a classic piece of side by side history showing an internal company communication written by John Olin, the leader of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company addressed to their Vice President Edwin Pugsley.
This fascinating two-page letter below provides a timely and highly interesting perspective of the world gun market back in the mid-1930’s, and points out early problems with the Winchester Model 21’s beavertail forearm design and John Olin’s dedication to the highest of quality and his determination to find a solution to correct it.
In addition, it reveals Olin’s first glimpse into one day producing a Winchester made over/under shotgun. Very interesting!
Hope you enjoy the read.

 

[sillymike]

Interesting find!
- Wonder if anyone at Winchester noticed the weight difference between British doubles VS American doubles?

 

[Cow Town Bill]

Interesting letter Spank. Where did you find it?
At some point in time Winchester changed the attachment of the forend wood to the forend iron. I'll see what I can find and report back.

 

[struff55]

I cannot take credit for this but rather I am copying and posting this from a FB group I follow on American SxS shotguns. This was posted by the group admin. The first two people that came to mind after reading the internal memo letter were Cowtown Bill and Canvasback.

Early Issues with the Model 21 Beavertail Forearm - An Internal Communication within Winchester

In a continuing effort here at SASSS to highlight and bring to light the vast examples and uniquenesses of the side by side shotgun, its community and the history that it represents.
Here is a classic piece of side by side history showing an internal company communication written by John Olin, the leader of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company addressed to their Vice President Edwin Pugsley.
This fascinating two-page letter below provides a timely and highly interesting perspective of the world gun market back in the mid-1930’s, and points out early problems with the Winchester Model 21’s beavertail forearm design and John Olin’s dedication to the highest of quality and his determination to find a solution to correct it.
In addition, it reveals Olin’s first glimpse into one day producing a Winchester made over/under shotgun. Very interesting!
Hope you enjoy the read.

View attachment 886076View attachment 886077

interesting winchester had 30 years to build a o/u and never got it done had it built in japan in 1962
as for the model 21 i have owned 3 12 ga
just not my cup of tea to heavy to cumbersome simply does not handle as a sxs should
as for mister olin commenting on building a sxs better than a britt made gun he was out of touch with what the sxs shooting public wanted especially the men of wealth
i find it interesting that he had to look at a Parker to correct there issue which is fine may as well copy something that works
The Parker the best american sxs ever built
they had the frame size figured out which is a big part of what makes a good sxs and bbl weights to match frame size
not dissing win they made many quality guns most of which were a browning design

 

[Cow Town Bill]

I cannot take credit for this but rather I am copying and posting this from a FB group I follow on American SxS shotguns. This was posted by the group admin. The first two people that came to mind after reading the internal memo letter were Cowtown Bill and Canvasback.

Early Issues with the Model 21 Beavertail Forearm - An Internal Communication within Winchester

In a continuing effort here at SASSS to highlight and bring to light the vast examples and uniquenesses of the side by side shotgun, its community and the history that it represents.
Here is a classic piece of side by side history showing an internal company communication written by John Olin, the leader of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company addressed to their Vice President Edwin Pugsley.
This fascinating two-page letter below provides a timely and highly interesting perspective of the world gun market back in the mid-1930’s, and points out early problems with the Winchester Model 21’s beavertail forearm design and John Olin’s dedication to the highest of quality and his determination to find a solution to correct it.
In addition, it reveals Olin’s first glimpse into one day producing a Winchester made over/under shotgun. Very interesting!
Hope you enjoy the read.

View attachment 886076View attachment 886077

I have had a look at the Model 21 bible by Ned Schwing. Pages 116 and 117 mention that Winchester modified the original forearms with a brace to reduce the possibility of cracking. The book shows pics of the forearm with and without the brace. Subsequently, Winchester made another improvement by adding an ebony insert at the end of the forearm abutting the forearm shoe.

 

[reddog]

At our big "gunshow" yesterday and read this several months ago. There was a beauty model 21 "trap" with a raised rib dynamite wood for sale and it indeed had an ebony cap on the forearm. Too much coin for me but truly was the nicest I had seen in person.

 

[canvasback]

Spank, I don't know how I missed this thread until now. Fascinating bit of history.

My career was specifically as a importer and distributor of brand name sporting goods and I worked closely with numerous American brands, trying to find ways to have their products be more successful in Canada. So the tone and aim of this letter and Mr Olin's comments sound very familiar to me. My partners and I also owned a metal fabricating factory for a long time so I also somewhat get the pressures on Olin from that direction.

I started in the 70's and retired from it less than a decade ago. Olin was in his heyday in the 1920's and 1930s. I'm pretty cynical about a lot of marketing these days. But in 1935 the "marketers" hadn't taken over yet. But at the same time, there is a natural bias in Olin's comments. We don't know who the "Mr Robertson" from England he is referring to, but when he mentioned high end London guns, maybe he's talking about Robertson of Boss. I don't know which Robertson it was but given that the Robertson family owned Boss until 1999, it seems likely. And it's pretty clear that, despite Olin's ambitions and resources, he was never going to create something that competed with the Big Four London makers. Close maybe but not a direct competitor.

The Model 21 is a good gun. But it is no English Best. And it's not the be-all and end-all that M21 aficionados claim. But then neither is a Parker or an Fox. At least 50% of my always lighthearted criticisms of M21 is based on inflaming M21 fans. It's just fun to do. But I also like to poke at the Parker guys as well. And there is a reason for both. It is that the collector market for both those makes is a USA phenomenon, driven by Americans collecting Americana, not people collecting the best guns they can.