I have a Winchester Model 70 that I bought second hand in Ontario in 1999. The gun is chambered in .30-06 Springfield. The gun was made in 1974 and has a very smooth action. The only things I don't like about the gun is first, it kicks like a mule; and second is that the groupings are questionable. Is there an easy way to find out if the barrel is shot out? I have considered getting rid of this gun, but the action on it is just so nice.
Winchester Model 70 From 1974
- Thread starter Bitumen
- Start date
- Location
- Yellowknife, NWT
It takes literally thousands of rounds to "shoot out" a barrel to the extent that hunting accuracy is unobtainable, so that is unlikely.
Ensure it is well cleaned and that your scope mount and ring screws are tight. Check that your action screws are tight as well; there are certain schools of thought as to HOW tight each screw should be; Google this and read up on it.
Inspect the barrel crown with a magnifying glass to ensure there are no gouges or dings. Try several brands of ammo, as well.
In addition, the perceived recoil ("kicks like a mule") can make accurate shooting difficult. If you have a friend who is used to heavier-recoiling firearms, get him/her to shoot a couple groups.
Ensure it is well cleaned and that your scope mount and ring screws are tight. Check that your action screws are tight as well; there are certain schools of thought as to HOW tight each screw should be; Google this and read up on it.
Inspect the barrel crown with a magnifying glass to ensure there are no gouges or dings. Try several brands of ammo, as well.
In addition, the perceived recoil ("kicks like a mule") can make accurate shooting difficult. If you have a friend who is used to heavier-recoiling firearms, get him/her to shoot a couple groups.
I had one of that year and calibre. Used it for 34 yrs. It was/is a great rifle. Mine was exceptionally accurate with 165 gr. noslers being pushed along by 57 gr of IMR4350. This load would produce 1/2" to 3/4" 3 shot groups. Just with run of the mill ammo 1 1/2" 3 shot groups. 100 yds.
Mine could not not be described as "kicking like a mule", in fact it was better than alot of 30-06 rifles as with the scope she was about the 9 Ib range. Mine had the full mc stock with cheek piece. My Kimber 8400 recoils a little more than the 70 did in fact as it is much lighter.
As mentioned above there is a trick to tightning the action screws. There is 3 of them. Two are tight one is just snug. Trouble is I can not remember what the sequence is. Google is probably your friend on this one.
The action on these rifles is very smooth and trouble free. As it is a very simplistic push feed design. Like a fool I decided I needed a new rifle and sold mine. I regret that decision. A fella in Alberta is shooting mule deer and coyotes with it now.
Mine could not not be described as "kicking like a mule", in fact it was better than alot of 30-06 rifles as with the scope she was about the 9 Ib range. Mine had the full mc stock with cheek piece. My Kimber 8400 recoils a little more than the 70 did in fact as it is much lighter.
As mentioned above there is a trick to tightning the action screws. There is 3 of them. Two are tight one is just snug. Trouble is I can not remember what the sequence is. Google is probably your friend on this one.
The action on these rifles is very smooth and trouble free. As it is a very simplistic push feed design. Like a fool I decided I needed a new rifle and sold mine. I regret that decision. A fella in Alberta is shooting mule deer and coyotes with it now.
Yep, I bet if you play with the action screws, load, sights/scope (make sure everything is tight) you can get her to shoot. Perhaps you are flinching? (you said it kick like a mule)
To shoot out a barrel so it no longer maintains hunting accuracy in a .30-06 your looking at about 3000-4000 rounds.
To shoot out a barrel so it no longer maintains hunting accuracy in a .30-06 your looking at about 3000-4000 rounds.
Yesterday I was shooting it using 168 gr Nosler HBPT and 59 gr of H-4350. I shot 50 rounds and have a bruise on my shoulder to show for it.
Out of all my guns, it is my favorite action. It is so smooth and runs nice. It never jams. My hunting and shooting buddy keeps asking me to sell it to him so he can turn it into a 6mm Remington AI.
3000 - 4000 rounds to shoot out a barrel? Keep in mind that this gun is almost 40 years old and I've only had it for 12 years of this. I've probably done 500 with this gun, but who knows what it has seen before me!
Out of all my guns, it is my favorite action. It is so smooth and runs nice. It never jams. My hunting and shooting buddy keeps asking me to sell it to him so he can turn it into a 6mm Remington AI.
3000 - 4000 rounds to shoot out a barrel? Keep in mind that this gun is almost 40 years old and I've only had it for 12 years of this. I've probably done 500 with this gun, but who knows what it has seen before me!
I agree. You might have some copper fouling that even though years of cleaning with an inferior product has never removed copper fouling, that would be where I'd start. Bedding and floating would be next.
That era of M-70 was designed with fore end tip stock pressure on the barrel. I bedded mine, free floated the barrel and it actually opened my groups up a bit as that changed the barrel harmonics with that load. I had to reintroduce some tip pressure to tighten it up again.
Shooting 50 rds off a bench with an 06 could very well indeed put a bruise on your shoulder. I would not be inclined to blame the gun however but the technic and method in which the 50 rds were fired.
Shooting 50 rds off a bench with an 06 could very well indeed put a bruise on your shoulder. I would not be inclined to blame the gun however but the technic and method in which the 50 rds were fired.
Lots of good advice in the posts above. But I'm wondering, if you think it kicks like a mule, maybe you have a bad flinch causing the crappy groups. Try a good recoil pad and see if that helps.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I agree,....alot of very sensible posts here relating to this particular rifle, and great recommendations. Did you post the group sizes, and how many shots per group? Sorry if I missed this.
I have owned three like this PF action, still have a 270 and 7mmRM,..sold the '06 20 years ago. You are right, nothing feeds like a push feed M70.
My 7mm, has the factory pad and is heavier, and looking at your load data, that would be stout with that hard plastic black butt plate.
Do all mentioned on screw tension and bedding,try to find some "copper out",....similar to product used by British army sniping school. It's ammonia based, so make sure you hold your breath,....but can it shine up a copper fouled bore!!!!
I removed the pressure point on the 7mm, didn't even bed the action
and look at how cheap those glass kits are, but free floated, and it did tighten groups,....but also the shape of the groups. The 3 shots always seemed to be more circular, without the usual 3rd shot opening up with the pressure point. Can you see sharp lands in the throat area?
You got me to thinking of what my pet hunting load was in my through the 80's in my '06,..so I just dug out my old records.
The last load I used for deer, was a 150gr Nosler SB BT, over 59.5 grains of IMR 4350/CC!200. This load was fast and accurate in my rifle. I remember it was alot stouter to shoot, than 66 grs of IMR 4831 pushing a 175 gr Sierra BT out the 7mm.
The '06 was a lightweight by the way, but did have a tiny red rubber factory plate. If you have that hard plastic, they are nasty on 50 rds off the bench!!
I have owned three like this PF action, still have a 270 and 7mmRM,..sold the '06 20 years ago. You are right, nothing feeds like a push feed M70.
My 7mm, has the factory pad and is heavier, and looking at your load data, that would be stout with that hard plastic black butt plate.
Do all mentioned on screw tension and bedding,try to find some "copper out",....similar to product used by British army sniping school. It's ammonia based, so make sure you hold your breath,....but can it shine up a copper fouled bore!!!!
I removed the pressure point on the 7mm, didn't even bed the action
and look at how cheap those glass kits are, but free floated, and it did tighten groups,....but also the shape of the groups. The 3 shots always seemed to be more circular, without the usual 3rd shot opening up with the pressure point. Can you see sharp lands in the throat area?You got me to thinking of what my pet hunting load was in my through the 80's in my '06,..so I just dug out my old records.
The last load I used for deer, was a 150gr Nosler SB BT, over 59.5 grains of IMR 4350/CC!200. This load was fast and accurate in my rifle. I remember it was alot stouter to shoot, than 66 grs of IMR 4831 pushing a 175 gr Sierra BT out the 7mm.
The '06 was a lightweight by the way, but did have a tiny red rubber factory plate. If you have that hard plastic, they are nasty on 50 rds off the bench!!
