Winchester model 70, push feed vs control feed. opinions

Superglide

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Hello everyone, I am just looking for some opinions, the good the bad and the ugly, on the push feed action vs. the control feed actions on the model 70's. I have the chance to make a trade with a friend for a push feed model 70 in 270 for my cz 858 (non restricted). The CZ is not really my thing and I have always wanted a model 70. So lets get some opinions.
 
Have owned both. They both do what you need them to do. CRF has it's followers,mainly for dangerous game use. Push feed has advantages too,like being able to drop a round in without loading it to the mag first. Just make sure the Model 70 was built after 1969.
 
So all those high prices "pre 64's" are about equal to Norinco's? LOL

Thats a quality reply. Congrats on post number 874.f:P:

Any-who......

Mod 70's were made in a range from value / economy to $UPERGRADE with just as many calibres choices. Do your homework. I would hate to see you get boned for the sake of a brand name.
 
I have both CRF and push feed rifles. The push feeds are particularly nice when I load bullets long, making the cartridge too long to feed from the magazine; thus my target and varmint rifles are push feeds; mostly Remingtons though I have a soft spot for old SAKOs. I can see no reason why a push feed M-70 shouldn't prove suitable 95% of the time, and there is an argument to be made for the superiority of a flat bottomed rifle vs a round one. With a push feed action, I can simply drop the round on top of the follower and close the action without any issues. If a rifle is always loaded with a spitzer style bullet, and if the action always receives the care it requires while in the field, the push feed will work reliably and without complaint in all circumstances. Ross Seyfried used a push feed M-700 Remington in .416 Remington when he worked as a PH, and that rifle proved its worth.

In the field though, I prefer the simplicity of CRF actions, like my Brnos, my 98 Mausers, and my M-70 Winchester, and I very much like the Ruger Alaskan and Hawkeye rifles I've had the opportunity to use recently. I don't need a spring and plunger to eject the cartridge. Because the cartridge is held to the bolt face by the extractor as it is drawn from the magazine and pushed towards the chamber, its feeding is less sensitive to bullet style, and I frequently shoot WFN cast or blunt nosed jacketed bullets, which can present a feeding issue when loaded from the magazine of a push feed rifle. In the field I prefer to use an open faced bolt, if a poor load results in a case head expansion, I can withdraw the CRF bolt and remove the cartridge, but with a Remington style bolt that surrounds the case head in a ring of steel, the cartridge case with an expanded head is more than difficult to remove, and the rifle is out of action.
 
For the last 30 years or so, most people that actually know rifles have revered the "pre 64" winchesters as being the best example of the mauser action. Now all of a sudden some guy says to make sure you buy one made after 1969? Quality was pretty poor in the push feed Winchesters of the 80's and into the 90's. It has recently picked up a notch or two and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CRF Winchester made today. Still not in the same ballpark as the pre 64's but fine quality none the less. Soooo GTAFF.

Thats a quality reply. Congrats on post number 874.f:P:

Any-who......

Mod 70's were made in a range from value / economy to $UPERGRADE with just as many calibres choices. Do your homework. I would hate to see you get boned for the sake of a brand name.
 
For the last 30 years or so, most people that actually know rifles have revered the "pre 64" winchesters as being the best example of the mauser action. Now all of a sudden some guy says to make sure you buy one made after 1969? Quality was pretty poor in the push feed Winchesters of the 80's and into the 90's. It has recently picked up a notch or two and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CRF Winchester made today. Still not in the same ballpark as the pre 64's but fine quality none the less. Soooo GTAFF.

Duh? I see that my reply to the original question went right over your head. OP is looking at a push feed,not a pre 1964. So for him,the better one to get is one with the anti-bind slot. Which means a 1968 or newer one,but I say give it another year to 1969. Never in my reply or the OP's post did either of us mention anything about Pre or Post 1964 manufactured Winchester Model 70 rifles,now did we? So not realy sure where you read that part. Nothing wrong with the Model 70 from any year,just some are better than others.
 
Sorry but the way I read it is that the OP was looking for opinions on CRF vs Push Feed in the model 70's. Your original post seemed to imply that regardless of whether it was push feed or crf. that it would be wise to only look at Model 70's that were built after 1969. I guess it's my fault for interpreting it that way. And by the way your attitude sucks. Have a nice Sunday
 
Sorry but the way I read it is that the OP was looking for opinions on CRF vs Push Feed in the model 70's. Your original post seemed to imply that regardless of whether it was push feed or crf. that it would be wise to only look at Model 70's that were built after 1969. I guess it's my fault for interpreting it that way. And by the way your attitude sucks. Have a nice Sunday

That is where the word comprehension comes in. Reread the OP he is looking at trading for a push feed in 270.
 
Hello everyone, I am just looking for some opinions, the good the bad and the ugly, on the push feed action vs. the control feed actions on the model 70's. I have the chance to make a trade with a friend for a push feed model 70 in 270 for my cz 858 (non restricted). The CZ is not really my thing and I have always wanted a model 70. So lets get some opinions.

For a Model 70 generally I'd take or prefer a CRF over a push feed however that said I'm more concerned about how they shoot vs how they load ammo. I have a Win 70 XTR .30-06 with 24" barrel that is a push feed that is a real shooter. I also have a couple pre 64's [one .30-06 fwt and a .270 ] that are CRF. Love 'em all.

:canadaFlag:
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NAA
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I have both, they both shoot very well.

To the OP Winchesters` Model 70`s came out in the mid 30`s IIRC. Up to 1964 they were an improved Mauser 98 action which is a Controlled Round Feed. After 63 they were redesigned and became a push feed. Although the finish was rough on the originals they were all shooters as much as any out of the box rifle is. Early 90`s saw a reintroduction of the CRF. These are alos good rifles for the most part.

My Model 70 SS Classic feeds cartridges both from the magazine and direct drop in, not sure where this misconception comes from with model 70's, perhaps it's a pre64 thing. As I am not up on pre 64's I can't comment.

The CRF has a greater resale value and it will chamber rounds if you are hanging upside down without issue.

As others have mentioned there are a number of grades from the sporter to the supergrade. To comment on your trade I would need to know the model and year of manufacture.
 
The original CRF M70 does have a bit of "slop"/"bind" in the bolt. The new CRF with the anti bind feature does tighten up perceived "slop" and "bind". But the CRF scratches the hell out of cases, I always end up cleaning brass chips out of the action after a shoot. And nickel plated cases don't last past the initial firing with out a scrape on the case where there is no nickel.
The bolt must be drawn back completely and DO NOT try just droping one in the chamber and try closing the bolt.
Push feed on the other hand will take single rounds droped into the chamber.
 
Ciphery,

If you are seeing that kind of contact on your brass after each use I would suggest going to a gunsmith. I currently have four CRF's none of which mark brass, nickle plated or otherwise.

As far as dropping one in, I lack experience with the pre 64's, I have heard that you can not do it with them. Absolutely on the post 92 CRF you can without issue. As well, my 59 FN Safari Grade Browning you can and my CZ 550 you can.
 
Hello everyone, I am just looking for some opinions, the good the bad and the ugly, on the push feed action vs. the control feed actions on the model 70's. I have the chance to make a trade with a friend for a push feed model 70 in 270 for my cz 858 (non restricted). The CZ is not really my thing and I have always wanted a model 70. So lets get some opinions.

I don't know what your CZ 858 is worth, but post 64 push feed M70's seem to go for around $5-600, maybe a little more for a featherweight. Not saying yea or nay, but just suggesting you check the value of both before you commit.
 
I have a stainless Win 70 in 375 H&H, I can drop a round directly on the follower so seems to be best of both worlds, I own both but in a 375 it seems natural for it to be a CRF.

If your getting scratches, marks or gouges on your brass there may be something wrong, mine doesn't make a mark on them.
 
For the last 30 years or so, most people that actually know rifles have revered the "pre 64" winchesters as being the best example of the mauser action. Now all of a sudden some guy says to make sure you buy one made after 1969? Quality was pretty poor in the push feed Winchesters of the 80's and into the 90's. It has recently picked up a notch or two and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CRF Winchester made today. Still not in the same ballpark as the pre 64's but fine quality none the less. Soooo GTAFF.

I have to disagree on quality being poor on 1980's and into the 90's. I owned three from this period, a NIB XTR Sporter Magnum 7mmRM Olin corp Winchester circa 1981 last of the Winchesters, a lightweight .30-06 USRA NIB circa 1988, a NIB XTR Featherweight .270 USRA cicra 1991. I still own the 7mm and the .270. All very well made, all accurate, all feed like glass. No feed problems whatsoever. Woodbeef's suggestion to go for a post 69 is right on the money. The anti-bind bolt is like glass to cycle. The Rifleman's Rifle liveth!

Now back to OP, what model and serial number range are you looking at????

P.S. I have the CRF pre-64 FWT, don't see a need in a deer rifle chambered in .243Win for dangerous game CRF but whatever floats your boat..............
 
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How hard is it on the extractor if you dont load from the magazine? They are designed for the extractor just to pop over the rim of cartridge are they not?? Rugers, abolts, m70's have never given problems. A k98 mauser however needs to loaded out of the mag as the extractor won't pop over the case.
 
I have owned and used M-70's for 42 yrs. The push feeds were simple, reliable, and smooth as glass in there function. There was absolutely in my opinion nothing wrong with them. But media hipe, and marketing got Winchester to revert back to the CRF. I have 3 of these type. They are okay, although I fail to see what all the great hipe over CRF is about. The bolt itself is more complicated, not as smooth in function. You "can not" put a round in the chamber and close the bolt. without really forcing it home. The big claw extractor has to be forced over the case rim, and you are going to break something eventually. The owners manual even states single rounds must be fed up from the magazine. Those of you who own a new M-70 and can load single rounds without issue are lucky. You got one that has weak extractor pressure on the bolt. I have weakened mine so I can load single rounds. But this tweaking my not be everybodies cup of tea. I have many nickel plated cases and they function through the guns without leaving a mark on them. So to that fella I'd say your rifle has a problem.

As far as accuracy go's the old push feed type were just as accurate in my opinion as the newer CRF, individual rifle depending. Bottom line to the OP get what ever one you like that best that suites your budget. Both types are very good rifles, I would not be without at least one M-70, and I like them better than my Kimber as they are a little heavier therefore manage the recoil better. My latest one is the 75th aniversary model. A very well done rifle as I was always a sucker for high gloss blueing and real nice wood.
 
Recent production controlled feed Model 70s are capable of accepting a round fed directly into the chamber according to Winchester:

http://media.winchesterguns.com/pdf/om/07_361_model70.pdf

http://media.winchesterguns.com/pdf/om/model70_manual_om_s.pdf

In both cases, the manual notes that there will be a greater resistance to closing the bolt, but does not warn against doing it.

The manual for my CZ 527 also indicates that a round may be fed directly into the chamber.

Personally, my subjective preference is for controlled feed. It strikes me as a more refined design, whereas push feed primarily exists as a cost-cutting measure. If I were looking for a dangerous game rifle, I would consider controlled feed absolutely mandatory.
 
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