While all my hunting guns are CRF I hunted for years with PFs. Had no real issues. To me the extracter is the big thing. The old tang safey Rugers were PFs but had the claw extracter. I had to step on the bolt handle to free up a case that my father had dropped on the ground then fired in his Ruger. Also I normally unload my guns by a short inch or so forward movement of the bolt then pop out the case. I also like being able to raise the fired case slowly if wanted and pick the case out quietly as opposed the opening the bolt and ping out it goes. Mostly personal preference but there are certain advantages to CRF.
Winchester Model 70 question cal 30-06
- Thread starter eastwind
- Start date
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I have some experience with dangerous game rifles, and my preference is for a CRF action, but thats all it is, my personal preference. A M-700 extractor is IMHO not the best example of a PF extractor, and I've had to replace them on several of my rifles. The extracting systems used by Sako, Winchester, and Weatherby are all superior to the Remington. That did not prevent Ross Seyfried from using a M-700 when he worked as a PH. By the way, the slickest feeding dangerous game rifle on the market today might very well be the Weatherby Mk V, when chambered for the .378, .416, or .460.
If you short stroke a bolt gun when you are in a tight spot, you're done. It makes no difference if the action is a CRF of a PF. Short stroking the action is an operator error rather than a design failure. Here's what does matter. The rifle must work every time. If it does not, it needs the attention of a gunsmith. The fit of the rifle to the shooter, a good trigger, and good handling qualities are far more important than the system it was designed with to feed rounds from the magazine and extract them from the chamber. The key here is that both systems were designed to work reliably. If the rifle does not feed reliably, fix it or get rid of it. Do you have confidence in your rifle and in your ability to use it? If so, all is good, but if not adjustments must be made.
When we consider a dangerous game rifle, we might very well choose a bullet with a hemispherical or flat nose. If a round is going to hang up on feeding, its one that has no taper to ease it into the chamber. The CRF action handles this particularly well because the cartridge is held parallel and in line with the bore. Again the Weatherby Mk V solves the problem very well in another way, the rounds are fed from a straight line magazine, with no off set.
The trouble with the whole dangerous game discussion is that it applies to very few people. Dangerous game hunts are almost always guided. In most circumstances, the client's hunting rifle does not fill the same purpose as the PH's stopping rifle. If you make a poor shot on a dangerous animal and it must be followed up in close cover, chances are there is a guide or PH who earns good money to keep you out of trouble.
The very best African dangerous game rifle might not be a bolt gun at all, it might be the double. But to appreciate the double requires one to adapt to a different way of hunting and shooting. I discovered I didn't care for the one I tried, which given my budget is just as well. But those who have made the investment to own and master it, and to hunt in a way that suits it, the double is a dangerous game killer without peer.
If you short stroke a bolt gun when you are in a tight spot, you're done. It makes no difference if the action is a CRF of a PF. Short stroking the action is an operator error rather than a design failure. Here's what does matter. The rifle must work every time. If it does not, it needs the attention of a gunsmith. The fit of the rifle to the shooter, a good trigger, and good handling qualities are far more important than the system it was designed with to feed rounds from the magazine and extract them from the chamber. The key here is that both systems were designed to work reliably. If the rifle does not feed reliably, fix it or get rid of it. Do you have confidence in your rifle and in your ability to use it? If so, all is good, but if not adjustments must be made.
When we consider a dangerous game rifle, we might very well choose a bullet with a hemispherical or flat nose. If a round is going to hang up on feeding, its one that has no taper to ease it into the chamber. The CRF action handles this particularly well because the cartridge is held parallel and in line with the bore. Again the Weatherby Mk V solves the problem very well in another way, the rounds are fed from a straight line magazine, with no off set.
The trouble with the whole dangerous game discussion is that it applies to very few people. Dangerous game hunts are almost always guided. In most circumstances, the client's hunting rifle does not fill the same purpose as the PH's stopping rifle. If you make a poor shot on a dangerous animal and it must be followed up in close cover, chances are there is a guide or PH who earns good money to keep you out of trouble.
The very best African dangerous game rifle might not be a bolt gun at all, it might be the double. But to appreciate the double requires one to adapt to a different way of hunting and shooting. I discovered I didn't care for the one I tried, which given my budget is just as well. But those who have made the investment to own and master it, and to hunt in a way that suits it, the double is a dangerous game killer without peer.
In my opinion you are bettre with CRF. even if i dont hunt lion or elephant i still prefer CRF eventhough the % that you need a second shot on any game is low it is most likely that a CRF will do the job.
i had PF before and i hated it since it didnot extract properly.
i had PF before and i hated it since it didnot extract properly.
this is true but incomplete.
if you short stroke a CRF on the closing stroke, the cartridge that did not chamber is simply ejected upon the opening stroke, and you subsequently feed the next top round off the magazine on the next closing stroke.
if you short stroke a PF on the closing stroke, the cartridge that did not chamber is left partially chambered, and then you pick up the top round in the magazine and feed it onto the round in the chamber, jamming the rifle.
Everyone insists that their PF rifles feed fine, upside down or otherwise. Of course they do. They are designed to.
What sets them apart from CRF actions funcionally, is how they perform after an operator error.
In other words, the CRF design does not, and never was intended to prevent a bumble during the cycling of a bolt. It was designed to self-correct a bumble by keeping control of, and clearing a cartridge that did not successfully chamber (which of course can be from a dirty or damaged cartridge as well as a short-stroke).
whether or not this feature is of importance is of course up to the individual.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
RGV, you make a good point, and lets add to that by saying that a jam caused by short stroking a push feed action rifle with a blind magazine cannot be cleared without taking the action out of the stock. Now wouldn't that be handy when the chips were down.
Bolt actions should be cycled vigorously, with no thought of kindness towards the bolt. If you get in the habit of operating a bolt gun in this fashion, and cycle the bolt without taking the rifle off your shoulder between shots, your chances of surviving a dangerous game encounter have risen dramatically.
Bolt actions should be cycled vigorously, with no thought of kindness towards the bolt. If you get in the habit of operating a bolt gun in this fashion, and cycle the bolt without taking the rifle off your shoulder between shots, your chances of surviving a dangerous game encounter have risen dramatically.
