winchester model 70

rhino62

rhino62

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I have an opportunity to buy a model 70 feather weight in 308 pre-64. The rifle has a 40###x serial number, so I believe it was made in the fifties and has reasonable wear and tear on it. The question I have is what would be a reasonable price to pay for it. I know that I can still buy a new Winchester model 70 classic which is approx $800 and I am more interested in using the rifle than in having it for its collection value and also that it belongs to an old friend. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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win70

Pre-64 Win. mod 70 Featherweights are wonderful rifles and very desirable to shooters and collectors alike. Depending on it's condition and originality it could very well be worth $800. The good thing about it is it's not going to go down in value whereas the new one will as soon as you take it out of the store!
 
The new classics are better rifles. Better heat treatment of the receiver (they're tough, not 'brittle'), improvements to the bolt release, and more importantly FAR better barrels. Those pre-'64 are fine guns, but the classics are even better. If you can pick up a late-model featherweight, do it.
 
The key is the originality. If it is untouched then it is worth $800.00. The stock cannot be sanded or retouched at all and the blueing must be original. Anything that is retouched loses it's value.
 
rhino62 said:
I know that I can still buy a new winchester model 70 classic which is approx $800
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Where can you still buy a new M70 Classic? Most "new- old stock" rifles that dealers still have in stock are either dogs with visible flaws - very common on very late production M70's - or are priced well over 800 bucks.

The 1950's vintage rifle you are looking at does have collector value- probably in the ballpark of 800 bucks - regardless if that is important to you or not.

If you want a cheaper, more accurate and lighter rifle to use as a shooter just buy a new Savage.
 
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rhino62 said:
I have an opportunity to buy a model 70 feather weight in 308 pre-64. The rifle has a 40###x serial number, so I believe it was made in the fifties and has reasonable wear and tear on it. The question I have is what would be a reasonable price to pay for it. I know that I can still buy a new winchester model 70 classic which is approx $800 and I am more interested in using the rifle than in having it for its collection value and also that it belongs to an old friend. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Your Rifle was made in 1957
The 308 featherweight was made from 1952 to 1963. The .308 was only made in a featherweight style with about 41,000 being made. 22" barrel was standard.
In the short term the Classic will drop in value the second you take it home and shoot it, the pre 64 will not. Price probably same as Classic.
My thoughts
Meanea
 
Bishopus said:
The new classics are better rifles. Better heat treatment of the receiver (they're tough, not 'brittle'), improvements to the bolt release, and more importantly FAR better barrels. Those pre-'64 are fine guns, but the classics are even better. If you can pick up a late-model featherweight, do it.
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I wont argue the heat treatment consistency may be better on the new ones but you dont hear of too many problems with the original. The barrels of the original featherweights are cut rifled not hammer forged as the new ones are. If you compare the old to new with a borescope you will soon see which is the better quality barrel. New one I have and the new ones I've scoped have some of the most horrible looking bores out there. I wouldn't call the new bolt release an improvement, they both work fine but the new ones are built with production concerns foremost not quality. The new ones have a gas blowback block installed on the bolt to prevent gas from a ruptured or blown case from going straight back through the lug raceway, a very good improvement. I have both and quality wise I prefer the pre-64's, and yes my 50 year old pre-64's are worth twice as much as my new classic.
 
If you aren't a collecter but appreciate a fine hunting rifle, get a M70 Classic CRF model and don't look back. There was a time when the M70's went to hell, but with the re-introduction of CRF and Classic styling, the new style Featherweight Classic is every bit as good as or better than the pre-64. And get rid of that thumbs down when you're talking about fine rifles, newbie :p :)
 
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Bishopus said:
The new classics are better rifles. Better heat treatment of the receiver (they're tough, not 'brittle'), improvements to the bolt release, and more importantly FAR better barrels. Those pre-'64 are fine guns, but the classics are even better. If you can pick up a late-model featherweight, do it.
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Im still waiting to see the smiley that that post was a joke....
 
Sorry, not a joke. The old barrels were button rifled, but each button only pulled 25-50 good barrels--the rest of the 200 they pulled with the same button weren't nearly as good. The bolt release IS better, and not just for ease of production. The metal used and heat treatment ARE better.

The pre-'64 are obviously more collectible (duh, they're 40+ years old), and have superior bluing and finish (and wood, in most cases). But the new classics are just better _functional_ rifles. They're more accurate, they have fewer issues with receivers cracking, and the bolt release is easier to replace if it breaks (which it often did on the pre-'64s). Sorry to bring the bad news...
 
Bishopus said:
Sorry, not a joke. The old barrels were button rifled, but each button only pulled 25-50 good barrels--the rest of the 200 they pulled with the same button weren't nearly as good. The bolt release IS better, and not just for ease of production. The metal used and heat treatment ARE better.

The pre-'64 are obviously more collectible (duh, they're 40+ years old), and have superior bluing and finish (and wood, in most cases). But the new classics are just better _functional_ rifles. They're more accurate, they have fewer issues with receivers cracking, and the bolt release is easier to replace if it breaks (which it often did on the pre-'64s). Sorry to bring the bad news...
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the statement regarding button rifling on pre-64's is completely untrue. they were cut, then in ~1958 they switched to broaching, which is s form of cut-rifling.

exactly how is a classic M70 a better funcioning rifle?

what exactly (other than theory) shows that the metal and heat treatment are better?

and how hard is it to change a bolt stop? they are held in by one pin. Not that I've ever broken one, and I used a pre-64 in 308 to shoot tens of thousands of rounds in NRA high Power competition, slamming the bolt back and forth in rapid fire stages.
 
Sorry, my aplogies--the barrels were only terrible up until 1958, then they got marginally better. Mea culpa, that was TOTALLY UNTRUE :rolleyes:

Pre-64 receivers are very hard, just like the '03 Springfield. Classics don't have that hard, brittle 'shell' over relatively soft steel, they're tough all the way through. Steel and heat treatment have improved tremendously over the last 40 years--ask around.

The new ones have worse wood (hard to compare the super grades over the years, but the pre-'64 are still better), worse bluing (again a caveat about the super grades), and although the trigger is still great, the new ones _are_ set heavier from the factory. Lawyers have gotten worse over the last 40 years...

I could care less about the bolt release change, but it does make replacement easier for the 'smith or the factory.

Classics better: better steel, better barrels, better bolt release
Tie: Same trigger, same safety
Pre-'64 better: better bluing, better wood, better collectors value

:wave:
 
Bishopus said:
Sorry, my aplogies--the barrels were only terrible up until 1958, then they got marginally better. Mea culpa, that was TOTALLY UNTRUE :rolleyes:
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yes, mea culpa is right.

Pre-64 receivers are very hard, just like the '03 Springfield. Classics don't have that hard, brittle 'shell' over relatively soft steel, they're tough all the way through. Steel and heat treatment have improved tremendously over the last 40 years--ask around.
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modern steel is better than 1937 steel. no kidding. but you need a laboratory to prove it, when comparing a 'modern' winchester rifle to an older one. how many older rifles with inferior steel have you seen have problems?

I could care less about the bolt release change, but it does make replacement easier for the 'smith or the factory.
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if you could care less, then why did you bring it up as a supposed advantage to a Classic? and if you have ever actually swapped one out on a pre-64, you would know that being 'easier' is rubbish. they switched because it was cheaper to use a wound spring than drilling a small hole and installing a plunger with a coil spring, not for the benefit of making things easier for anyone.

Classics better: better steel, better barrels, better bolt release
Tie: Same trigger, same safety
Pre-'64 better: better bluing, better wood, better collectors value
:wave:
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I don';t really think one is 'better' than the other, but your reasons for the classics being better functioning rifles are not valid. There is no doubt that the larger amount of hand-work on the pre-64 made for greater variability in quality control.
 
I've seen this debated many times..

I think that they are both good rifles, but there sure is a cult following the Pre-64's Riflemans Rifle!;)

Although there are many accurate Pre 64's,accuracy standards in factory rifles sure have improved in recent years.
 
rgv said:
how many older rifles with inferior steel have you seen have problems?
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Um, none--because when they 'have problems' the receiver cracks and the rifle goes to the scrap heap.

Look, the high rockwell hardness of the receiver (skin vs. innards) is an objective fact; that I've never been holding one the moment it cracked doesn't make that fact go away.:slap:

And yeah 'cult' is right--I haven't seen so much kool-aid passed around since the Jonestown reunion...
 
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